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258 in '67 Rogue. Suggestions?

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jdarosa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jdarosa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 258 in '67 Rogue. Suggestions?
    Posted: Oct/31/2014 at 11:11am
I'm putting a '80 258/904 into my Rogue. I don't want a drag car, but something with a little rumble without losing gas mileage. So far, I'm thinking Clifford headers and 2" or 2 1/4" dual exhaust, aluminum intake (Clifford or Offy), and a Holley 390. 

Any recommendations? I'd like a small cam, but I'm sure what the best option would be. Also, would a Weber carb be a better alternative to the Holley?

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/31/2014 at 6:09pm
Ought to be a nice runner. The holley will work. The weber will too. Another idea would be the 2100 motorcraft. ...... most of the cam grinders make a good cam. For a mild cam, Id probably go with isky. I think the offy is better, but if you end up with the clifford, that will work.   Headers? Some people swap a 4.0 head on so they can. get a low cost header, (which is stock on the 4.0s) I dont know if you can even get headers. I know clifford made some, but They werent for awhile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblin64sw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/31/2014 at 6:17pm
I vote for 2 progressive weber's and a 4.0 head. It will run sweet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/31/2014 at 7:17pm
I have this set up in my 74' Matador Coupe, runs nice. Fincky during the winter. If you are going with the Clifford intake I would suggest keeping the stock exhaust manifold. First of all the stock manifold warms up the intake a heck of a lot better than the headers do, believe me I know. Also you will get about the same amount of HP out of the car as with the headers, maybe a 5 HP difference.  Another is you can take the exhaust to the 2 1/4 inch all the way from the manifold to the muffler. Looks more stock also, get that sleeper look going under the hood.

the one thing I would think about is the dual 2BBl Webers for the six, same CFM total as the Holley, but better flow and mix before combustion, hence better power and gas mileage.

Feel free folks to chime in and correct me if I have strayed off the path, or totally got something wrong.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/01/2014 at 8:57am
I disagree on the headers.
I ran a Offy dual-port with a Holley 390 on a 69 232 for about a month before I added the Viper tuned headers from Clifford research.

The headers made a drastic difference, once I rejetted the carb. for the change. There was more of a change between the 4bbl with stock exhaust and then the headers, than just adding the 4bbl.
I went thru the roughest winters this country has ever seen, 1976-77 with that combination, I had to fabricate a heat stove around a header tube to heat the intake air to the air cleaner to get decent running in sub zero weather.

Now running full length tuned headers on a daily driver is another story, but I've always been able to weld and those were high quality headers $120 for a set of headers in 1970 was a lot of money. With constant patching every year or so, I managed to keep those headers almost 15 years. But I think getting the exhaust hot every day may have delayed rust more than if I'd just driven the car occasionally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jdarosa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/01/2014 at 9:34am
That 4.0 swap Seems popular and no aftermarket header maintenance. But you say it's worth the gain?

Edited by jdarosa - Nov/01/2014 at 9:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/01/2014 at 11:35am
I believe headers help alot on the 6s.   The stock manifold is restrictive. In stock form, the 6 is like having 1940s technology. (At least my 258 is lol).....but my car is original, and I dont want to modify it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblin64sw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/01/2014 at 12:39pm
The head on the 4.0 was a big improvement over the design of the one on your 258. Whether you modify a 4.0 head to fit your 258 or sell the 258 and buy a complete 4.0, I think you will be glad you did. It would also give you the option of a multi port fuel injection. I like the 904's, but you might also consider a 4spd auto or 5 speed instead to make the most of the 6 cylinder. ( I assume you have all the money in the world to do with what you wish.) I put a 4.0 head on a 232 with dual webers in my American. I  think that it was well worth extra effort. Ask a dozen gearheads for an opinion, and you'll get a dozen answers. What ever you choose to do, have fun with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/03/2014 at 8:03am
The 4.0L head swap is a good idea if you want headers. The stock 4.0L header is good and cheap. It won't fit the 258 head, but the intakes will swap. The center exhaust ports changed (were separated instead of siamesed like on the 258) for the 4.0L. The head and exhaust isn't worth a lot of power by themselves, maybe 10-15 hp depending on what you do with the rest of the exhaust (I run a 2.25" single with turbo muffler). But you can change the head for about the same cost of the Clifford header (new), probably less by about $100 if there is a good pick-n-pull yard locally. The 4.0L head and exhaust header with the 258 intake (assuming you have a late 80 with aluminum intake, not the early model with cast iron intake and exhaust bolted together under the carb) is a good choice/ You can run a Motorcraft 2100 or 2150 with it.

I'd look at an Isky 256 Supercam too. The 4.0L head needs a better cam to really shine. If you go with a 4V carb I recommend the Offenhauser Dual Port intake for street driving and either the Holley 390 or a Truck Avenger 465 4V. The 390 is the best for economy, the 465 will provide a bit more power (at he expense of a few MPG at higher speeds).

2" or 2.25" true duals is too much for a street car IMHO. I wouldn't run more than 2" duals on a 360 or 401 street engine, probably 1.75". Large exhaust only works well for high rpm engines. If you go with true duals keep it down to 1.5" or 1.75" on the 258. Custom benders might not stock 1.5" pipe though... but should if they do many stock small cars. My 2.25" single works great and sounds good with just a generic turbo muffler. I wouldn't go any bigger unless I was drag racing a lot. 2" would be fine, really. I don't think there is any difference between the 2" and 2.25". I ran 2" but changed to 2.25" when I had a new exhaust put in. I was running a 4.6L stroker with the 2" then 2.25", run a hopped up stock 0.030" over/stock stroke 4.0L now.


Edited by farna - Nov/03/2014 at 8:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/03/2014 at 9:21am
2002 up 4.0L head.
Dual cast iron exhaust manifolds designed together.
A carb intake adapts pretty easily, I did it, and if I can do it most anyone can!

There's also some cool, what I call bundle of snake equal length shorty headers out for the 2000 up small port head. Should make gobs of good torque as that is what they were chasing.

Intake, it would be up to you. Carbs, efi, both can do quite well. I like my simple 91-95 OBD I injection. It can sit for weeks, touch the key and I'm off, no gummy carbs or chokes plates etc;

My one thought is get it to the running phase, then you can get a feel for the true nature of what you want. Don't build a car for a 16 year old you when your 40, build it for the 40 year old you!
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