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4.0 Head on a 232

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1968AMC770Wagon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1968AMC770Wagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2009 at 3:05pm
ok, so 95 4.0 head, i will need the headers and intake too right?  And will the headers work with the left hand starter location?

Edited by 1968AMC770Wagon - Sep/11/2009 at 4:38pm
Zach Orcutt



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2009 at 4:01pm
   You mean left side starter don't you ? 64-72 AMC 6's have the starter on the left (drivers) side.


Edited by tyrodtom - Sep/11/2009 at 4:03pm
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1968AMC770Wagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2009 at 4:38pm
Yes, i did mean the RH side.  Long day at school.
 
I'm definately going with the 4.0 head.  Now I just need to make up my decision on headwork and what other mods i want to do.
 


Edited by 1968AMC770Wagon - Sep/11/2009 at 4:40pm
Zach Orcutt



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2009 at 7:39pm
Any 91-99 head will work just fine, but some do think the 94-96 head is a bit better than the others. I forget the casting number. In all truth any 4.0L head will be an improvement over what you have now! So look for a 95, but fi you don't find one +/- a couple years is still good.  Oh, the 2000 model heads are known to crack, but it appears to happen only under hard use. I'm running a 2000 head on my 258. I think it will be fine for a normal driver.

The 91+ exhaust should clear a left mount starter. 87-90 I don't think will. Might have to do a little tweaking on the 91+, but you should be okay. You only want the intake if you're going for the EFI also. Otherwise you need a 1980-89 carburetor intake. Easy to find on AMC cars and Jeep CJs and Wranglers with the 258 (also Jeep J-10 pickups from 80-88 w/258). They are easy to spot -- intake is aluminum and doesn't bolt to the exhaust manifold like your stock intake. It's an easy mod to bolt to the 4.0L head.

87-90 are Renix heads and have higher ports than the 258, but not as high as the 91+ H.O. heads. The higher ports give a straighter shot into the combustion chamber and improve charge velocity. In 2000 the ports were made smaller. That is why most don't want to use 2000-06 heads, but they are really just as good for low speed operation. A lot of work went into changing the ports and the smaller size DOES NOT hurt low end and mid level power, in fact they small ports give a slight low end power improvement. You do lose a little at high rpm... at least theoretically.
Frank Swygert

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2009 at 12:50am
I m really interested by this thread .
After thinking to many things to improve performance , I planned  to do exactly the same thing in my 66 ambassador 232 .
My project :
- head from a 93 Cherokee , casting 7120 , already waiting in the garage.
- home made heated intake to adapt 2 or 3 Rochester B carb , waiting for them via USPS ...
- a cam , don t know which yet , Clifford may be nice , but expensive ..
- new lifters , pushrod
- Cherokee  header , cut / welded to fit with the left side starter , or home made  ( I love my Miller MIG ... )
- 2 1/2 inches exhaust , with a Magnaflow , already done
- Javelin power steering , pump already installed with a home made bracket . Gear box rebuilt in the garage
- disk brake and power brake of course .

This is gonna be my winter project , just have to finish my spare car before :P
Not sure everything will work or be powerfull , but this may at least be eye candy ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2009 at 10:43am
You shouldn't have a problem with the Chero header (I'm assuming you meant stock, but doesn't really matter) in the Ambo. I just looked at my J-10. It has a 2000 head with a Renix exhaust manifold on it. The Renix exits about 3-4" further back than a 91+ exhaust. You might have enough room for the starter with no mods. Hmm.. I just looked at a 91+ exhaust manifold. The outlet angles to the rear, You will probably have to turn the outlet down and run the exhaust under the starter, or make some pie cuts near the top of the flange and get the outlet to run the pipe to the left side of the starter.

I'd go with a Comp Cams 252H for a good cruiser (http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=8&sb=2), or the X4254H (http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=68-235-4&Category_Code=A6CAMSx4X4). The split duration of the Xtreme series is a bit better on the six, but they have a bit more lift and you can't use stock springs. So the 252H is probably a better choice.  It seems that anything over 0.450" lift can't use stock springs. All the Xtreme series have at least one valve in the 0.46x lift range.

How do you plan on making the intake -- just a log? If you use three carbs plug the idle circuits on the first and third and center the second. Otherwise it will run rich. Unless you plan on making three small intakes. Then you might be able to get the idles circuits leaned down enough, but will take some carb know-how! With two carbs both have to have idle circuits, but when I did that long ago I didn't have a rich idle problem. Idle may have been a little richer than ideal, I don't recall, but not enough to cause any problems or to noticeably affect fuel consumption or plug life.

Which reminds me -- get a later Motorcraft dizzy and do the TFI upgrade or a GM six HEI system for best performance. At the very least a hot coil and a Pertonix unit! You won't regret upgrading the ignition at all!!
Frank Swygert

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2009 at 1:34pm
Thanks a lot for your comments , they are always usefull :P

- I really don t like the stock Cherokee header . It quite ugly . But it s easy to find a cheap one , so it will probably be my first choice . It seems that even if I must modify it , it s not a big job . I have a MIG , still learning with it , but manage to weld down to gauge 24 without burning holes if I take care , so ...

- Nice to know for the cam . The car is a driver , so I mostly need low torque . Even if I don t get all the power I could , who cares ? It already enough to bring kids to school , go to working and growcery :) I ll follow your advice and choose a cam which permit me to keep my stock springs . the main reason is in fact money ...

- Concerning the intake , I plan to make a plenum with runners , nothing more . But not by chance ....
I m learning how to calculate the plenum volume , length and diameter of the runners .
I may try a steel one to verify it works , heated with the exhaust by a pipe , and later a stainless one heated by engine coolant .
What means "just a log? " . english is not my native langage , so I don t understand ..

- Carbs ... the guy I have my Rochester B sold 3 matched one , maybe from the same truck . I still have to investigate beforing deciding if I use 2 ou 3 . My knowledge in carb tuning is quite  null ..
So I will probably go the safest way .

- I already have a Pertronix , with the stock coil . Vaccum advance may need some tuning , playing with the spring / plates in the vacuum head  . Is the upgrade to TFI or HEI worst ?

- Of course , I ll have to check lubrification , rebuilt fuel pump , etc .. Minor details :P


Thanks a lot .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2009 at 2:45pm
The stock Cherokee header for 1991 and later is just about the same as a Borla header. I agree that the 1987-90 header is quite ugly though!

By a "log" intake I mean something like the original Rambler 232 intake. Basically it is a straight piece with the carburetor in the middle (a "log") connected to the head by runners. It works, just not the best.

The Pertronix is a good unit, and I suggest you stop there! The only thing you might want to do is get a more powerful coil if you are still running the stock coil. The stock coil generates around 20-30,000 volts, a performance coil will be 30-50,000. Something around 40,000 would be fine. To be honest, unless you have a resistance problem in a plug (starting to foul), the stock coil is fine. You only really need the higher voltage for high rpm use -- higher than you will be running -- or to increase the time between cleaning the spark plugs, as the higher power coil will continue to fire when the stock one will falter.

The TFI and HEI ignition systems are about the same, just Ford and GM respectively. There are some minor differences, but it's mainly in packaging -- HEI is an all-in-one unit, TFI has a separate coil/distributor/ignition module.  The only advantage over the Pertronix they have is the large distributor cap. That separates the contacts inside the cap and prevents higher than older stock coil voltages (the TFI and HEI have "hot" coils) from jumping across to a spark plug tower other than the correct one. I don't see why the TFI adapter, cap, rotor and wires can't be used with a Motorcraft points distributor and Pertronix unit though. The plug wires have to be changed because the end on the TFI cap has a different, tighter connector than the old cap.


Edited by farna - Oct/01/2009 at 2:48pm
Frank Swygert

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1968AMC770Wagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2009 at 3:12pm
I added it up, and with everything i will be up over 2500 in this rebuild and modification.  ALmost makes me want to just drop in a 360 and tranny.
Zach Orcutt



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2009 at 3:25pm
what is a stock 360 rated at for hp at the crank?    My 4.0 made 184rwhp through a 3 spd stick and a amc15 rear.  at a 18% loss in the drivetrain (which it probably has more, but well just use that) that is 33.12 loss from the crank to the wheels....    or 217.12 to the crank. torque was 212ftlbs at the tire..   losing 38.16 to the tires is 250.16 at the crank.    remeber that is with 18% loss. It is probably more...     not bad for a stock 4.0       port the head, cam, and some compression, and you will stomp a mudhole in a stock 360 with your 6.
setting guys out by car lengths....
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