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4.0 head swap benefits?

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Rambo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 4.0 head swap benefits?
    Posted: Mar/20/2015 at 9:27pm
So I've been thinking about doing a motor swap for a while now. My 232 is getting pretty tired. About 140,000 original miles, but recently I've been thinking about rebuilding/building up what I have. Then I've read a few posts about the 4.0 head swap. What are the benefits?
1965 American 440 hardtop, 232 2bbl carter, BW35 Trans
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uncljohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2015 at 7:23am
The head swap is apparently popular and a number of them have been done, but as in any modification the individual has to look at potential benefits balanced against the budget that you have available and what it is that you want accomplished.
The cylinder head gives the capability of developing more usable power and with that a certain efficiency in operation.
The cost includes a new head, the costs of modifying it to be used on an earlier block and new manifolding. That is intake and exhaust. And then finding one that will work with what ever fuel mixing system you wish to use.
If you can do it with in your budget and take advantage of the change in some way or another, it is probably worth it but only you can take that into consideration.
Personally I have built 3 engines since I knew it was possible and frankly can not cost justify taking a 4.0 head and realizing any particular benefit from it.
Purely from a cost to benefits evaluation.
That does not mean that I have not spent some incredibly large amounts of money for one thing or another, but I felt that what ever I spent it on was worth it to me.
Not to some one else.
But if the sole goal is to rebuild a 4.0 head and install it and not take advantage of it, doing so any improvement probably is not worth the money spent.
I am building a low budget performance oriented 232 at the moment and I have everything I want to use purchased at swap meets for next to nothing and have no intention of changing the head. If I did my shelf full of parts would be come useless.
70 390 5spd Donohue
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80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblin64sw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2015 at 10:56am
As Uncle John has stated, much will depend on your budget. It is my opinion, that it's worth every penny. An engine is nothing more than an air pump. The 4.0 head is more efficient. More power, better mileage. An added benefit of the 4.0 head would be the ease of converting to a mpfi system if you desired to do so at some point. Also valve train parts are still available. You can pick up new rockers and pivots at your local parts store. On the down side, buying cores from a wrecking yard can be a bit of a gamble. I went through 5 or 6 heads before I found a good one. Even with that many valves to choose from, I still had to buy a new set. The margins were too thin to be reground. More food for thought, you could have the new head rebuilt while you are still driving your car. Less down time when you do pull the motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nothingface5384 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2015 at 5:19pm
Think its be more beneficial to just aquire a d eventualy regasket and drop in a 4.0 with 2wd trans while you continue to enjoy your 232 in the meantime
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Rambo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/22/2015 at 8:59am
Thanks for the info and opinions. I suppose, like anyone I'd like the most bang for my buck. The 4.0 head sounds like a cool, productive upgrade. I like the edebrock head idea (pricey though). I think I would like I keep the straight 6 so I won't have to mess with modifying crossmembers and mounts. Also because not many people hop up the 6's I would love to do a 360 but those are pricy and id have to make mounts and crossmembers, then Get different springs,transmission, driveline etc. maybe I'll just sell the car and leave the engine decision to someone else
1965 American 440 hardtop, 232 2bbl carter, BW35 Trans
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2015 at 7:47am
As stated, the 4.0L head doesn't add much by itself -- may 3-5 hp. If you want a header and nice valve cover you can get a 4.0L head/header/VC for about the same cost as a new header. This is especially true if there is a pull-a-part type yard in your area. You will need an intake as well though. 1980-89 AMC car/Eagle/Jeep Wrangler intakes will fit. The EFI intake can be made to work with an adapter -- either leave the injectors and rail on or plug the injector bungs. Some Jeep racers use the intake with a carb and adapter.  I'd just get a 2V intake from an 80+ engine and an Autolite 2100/2150 (1.08 version) since you're looking for a power upgrade.

With the early 232 you just have to be careful about pushrod length with the 4.0L head. It needs shorter pushrods. Someone on here has done this swap, can't recall what pushrod length was used though.

You will find a better performance increase by swapping the cam to something like an Isky 256 Supercam. The head you have should be fine. I'd put my money on the cam change first, exhaust second (2" single with turbo muffler is plenty!), then a 2V carb and intake (if you have a 1V now). If you can afford the intake, carb, and 4.0L head with VC and header, that wouldn't be a bad idea. Unless you find a 64-80 original 2V intake you'll need to change the intake and exhaust anyway. Any of the aluminum intakes can be easily modified to fit the 4.0L head -- factory 2V or aftermarket 4V.
Frank Swygert
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Rambo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2015 at 8:38am
Yeah I think you're right. I'll just keep the head that I have. It already has a 2v intake and 2barrel carter on it. I might be able to get my hands on a used Howell efi system for about 800. I might try to haggle the guy down. After all it is used. So with that, a rebuild/overhaul, new cam, header and exhaust. Along with a little bit better trans. It should be a pretty cool little car.
1965 American 440 hardtop, 232 2bbl carter, BW35 Trans
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2015 at 10:32am
You'll notice about a 20 hp increase with the cam alone (Isky 256 Supercam or similar). A Comp cam is fine, but stay away from the Xtreme cams -- they are mainly racing cams with very high lift, and require high pressure springs. If you like the split duration (intake and exhaust are different) call Comp and get them to custom grind one with under 0.50" lift. That will only cut down on high rpm power a bit, lowering the rpm range a few hundred rpm. You'd never notice on the street, and can use stock valve springs. The Isky cam is a great one like it is though.

I'd leave the header off, just use a 2" exhaust. A header will set you back a bit, as only Clifford makes one for the 232/258 that will work as is in a car. Jeep headers hang down too low. All the headers made for 72 and later cars will interfere with the left side starter of the early 232. They require the #5 and #6 header tubes to be cut and moved away from the starter. I don't think the current Clifford two piece header (two three pipe headers, for single exhaust you have a 2-into-1 pipe made) interferes with the left side starter, but I'm not sure.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2015 at 6:24pm
I have done the Howell Port injection FI install about 14 years ago when it was being marketed by CHRYSLER as a Jeep up grade.
I am not going to say It did not improve the performance and I am going to say at close to 3 grand it was expensive.
But if you did not get the full conversion with ALL of the parts and the instructions it is not worth buying.
It is complex, but the full thing was turn key when installed.
It also took me about 4 years to identify why it did not run well and it almost cured me of ever touching a FI conversion again, 'specially when it comes to the AMC I-6 engine, if you know how to tune the things, you can get about the same performance out of one with a good 4bbl and a decent cam.
And well under $500.00 using used parts.
It had a basic performance flaw as I was lead to believe well after the fact and because of it, a lot of people removed it due to lack of satisfaction.
Again, as the rumor mill had it at the time.
I know I parked mine for a year out of pure frustration.
But since then I have put 50,000 miles on the engine and it runs fast and hard with (as Frank pointed out) an Iskenderian 256 Super cam.
But out in the garage I am building a 232 with a Carter 425 cfm AFB and a used 4bbl intake and an Iskenderian 270HL cam.
Why?
Because I can, and I have the parts.
And at about 15% of the original fuel injection kit caust.


70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/24/2015 at 6:37am
As John says -- if you don't get the full instructions and all parts with the Howell you're in for a long ride installing! TomJ used one for a while and has a great write-up on installing that will help tremendously -- http://worldpowersystems.com/AMC/1963-Rambler-Classic-550-Cross-Country/Howell-TBI/index.html

As John pointed out, you can get just as much power from a carb as EFI. Where EFI shines is there are no more 3-4K mile tuneups. You can run 2-3 years without a tuneup, and when you do it's really just change points and check the cap/rotor/wires (if you have them -- many modern cars don't). EFI basically tunes the car as you drive, so you have more power potential at any given time. Carbs are great but can't compete! So under ideal conditions EFI and a carb will give the same power. Get very far out of the range that the carb was tuned in and EFI will produce more power and better gas mileage. Change altitude, weather, and even gas quality/octane and EFI will adjust engine parameters accordingly, a carb can't. A carb has some compensation built in, but it can't cope with very many changes. Carbs typically run a little rich as that's safer than running a bit lean. Too lean can cause burned valves and even pistons, to rich just makes gas mileage and sometimes power go down, and gets the oil dirty a bit faster -- EFI has allowed oil changes to stretch also. So a carbs efficiency varies over rpm (three circuits -- low speed, cruise, and high speed -- effiency drops at each end of each circuit) and with  environmental conditions, EFI adjusts itself.


Frank Swygert
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