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73 Javelin brake and suspension project

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purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2018 at 6:06pm
I swapped 1978 concord disc brakes on my 72 Gremlin. completely rebuilt the front end while I was at it.  only thing I didnt do was the spring mounts couldnt find better ones. when I get back to working on it, going to fix that and change the front springs as they are too STIFF.   want to replace the rear springs as well.  and redo all the brake lines again. ( they were functional, but looked terrible)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2018 at 6:51pm
The springs I bought for the front of my SX4 are WAY too stiff - don't know what they did but the wire is too large and even a bit of a pavement bump hammers the car harder than it should.
So when I get time - going to put different springs under it. I rebuilt the spring supports when I did the front end on the Eagle.

The springs I put in my 73 came from a 73 Javelin so should be fine. Found out why the car had those twist-in spring spacers when I got it - there was a broken front spring. It's a wonder the thing stayed in place they way they had it. It should sit better when done and all new bushings will help stop the constant banging and hammering sound with every bump. Man a rough road was noisy before.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2018 at 4:29pm
Now before anyone says anything - I KNOW the idler arm is on the bracket incorrectly - but if you also note the washers and nut are NOT on it - it's just slid together to get an idea of how it fit after nickel plating the bracket (and to see how it might look with part plated and part painted.
I know it goes the other way because the drag link goes behind the idler........
Anyway I got the steering linkage cleaned, some more plating and some stuff simply got painted. I was tempted to do some powder coating but that's more messy and time consuming and this isn't a show car.....
I plated the washer and nut for the idler arm, did the bracket in nickel, painted the arm and replaced the bushing. 
I put the tie rods together to the length I measured the old ones before I dropped them out of the car - it will at lease be sort of close. 
I refinished the idler arm bolts and nuts as well as the spacer that goes between the idler bracket and frame rail at the bottom. 
Hopefully the rest won't take so long as this part has so far........ except for the new brake lines and I expect a few hours for that at least. Ugh - getting too old for that up and down, under and up again.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2018 at 5:05pm
The up down up down....is why I now have a lift......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mopar_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2018 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by purple72Gremlin purple72Gremlin wrote:

The up down up down....is why I now have a lift......


Me too. I can get down on the floor OK but getting back up is a whole other story... Wink

"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/22/2018 at 6:59am
Sorry, if you'd run a lot of brake lines for cars with disk brakes and a combo valve, or for that matter, eve a drum brake car, you'd maybe realize that the SIMPLE part is under the car and you simply take the tools and supplies down with you and run a SINGLE line back, and then to the left and to the right rear wheel.
The REAL trouble is under the hood and no lift in the world will solve that if the engine and cross member are in place. If the car was a roller with no engine and no cross member, raise the car and stand in the engine bay....
But you run a line from the master, back to the firewall, back behind the engine down low, under the blower motor, then to the right inner fender and down to the valve. Then from the valve BACK across to the left side, under the master and power booster, around the steering column to the left inner fender and out a hole to the left caliper hose.
Then you run a THIRD line, this time from master to combo valve and that one runs the rear brakes. Then there's a short line from the valve to the right front wheel.
All of this is done in the wheel wells, then you stand on something and crush your rib cage and leave over those big fenders to get to the lines down low, to the valve, and to the firewall BEHIND the engine, yeah, down low, between engine and firewall. 
I have to remove some of the line clip screws from under the car, some from laying in the engine bay, some from standing in a metal milk crate leaning over the right fender and reaching around and through the right hood hinge......... nope, not a lift in the world would help there. 
It is a lot of up and down because you are getting up on a crate and laying across fragile fenders that dent easily (that's what Javelin fenders do) and laying across the engine and then getting DOWN to reach into the wheel wells..........
Not much is really done under the car, wish it was, that's simple - you take everything you need with you and stay under it until it's done. 
Three lines traverse the firewall side to side, behind the engine and under the wiper, blower motor, around the booster, etc. and down low......... only one goes to the back under the car (besides the axle lines)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/22/2018 at 5:11pm
Totally removed and cleaned the sway bar today. It was a greasy caked mess - and the ends were pretty rusty. Got it cleaned, most of the rust removed and then treated it - and painted the sway bar. The middle was amazingly smooth. The top of it was covered with paint as when the PO painted the car and engine bay - yeah, everything got paint.
The poly sway bar bushings arrived today so with the bar drying tonight I'll be able to put it in tomorrow and get the steering linkage back in place (mostly new, of course)
The sway bar bushing clamps were a mess - one was bent, both were rusty and were pitted once cleaned up and rust removed. 

The brake line clips - those clips that hold the lines to the firewall, etc. were pretty nice - not much rust on the few that had rust, the others were not rusty at all, but all, of course had body color paint on them for the same reason the sway bar did...... yup.
So I cleaned those up and refinished 'em.

Hopefully the bulk of the cleaning and scraping and de-rusting is done now. 







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2018 at 5:22am
That might be one reason the metering valve was removed from the combo valve -- eliminated some of the tubing! Just two go over to the valve, and only two leave it -- one to the nearest front wheel and one to the rear. The other front wheel is fed by a T in the line... from the MC to the valve on sixes at least, but could be in the line after leaving the combo valve. Hydraulics don't care -- pressure is equal in the line unless there is a leak (I realize you know that Bill!). Six cylinder cars usually have the valve under the MC, also less tubing.

The latest AMCs (late 80s "big" Eagles) even eliminated the combo valve, even with disc/drum brakes. If the brakes are sized just right a proportioning valve isn't needed. The combo valve with metering function only lasted 4-5 years (can't remember exactly) before engineers realized that fraction of a second where the front discs start to grab before the rear drums didn't matter.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2018 at 9:05am
Sorry, Frank - that's speculation - I go by training, facts, and what the companies said.
Keep in mind the Javelin and AMX was a light a##-ended car. Proof is in the vehicle total weight and the fact that when I was in college a couple of my friends discovered that two of them could lift the back end of my car......  (and a dozen or so of us could carry a Belvadere across the creek but that's another story)
Remember what each was for - how cars change, how the wagons have a HEAVY back end, the Eagle is just plain a heavy car, etc.
Fact is that the metering valve and other neat things were not AMC design - and they didn't have total determination in what was used or not - it wsa the makers of the brake systems AMC bought. 
If you look into the documentation of the day - up to the end of thed 1980s, you'll find the FULL combo valve still in use on many vehicles. It was replaced later by anti-lock systems and other nifty crap (do a check and see how many of us DISABLED the rear-only anti-lock brakes on our heavy Ford pickups due to the back end sliding around to the front under heavy braking on wet roads - those trucks were dangerous and a whole lot of people I know figured out how to kill it before they got killed, or let it die when it went bad)
Anyway, the brake companies and even Mitchell have great explanations of the purpose, under what conditions and so on.
And - brake systems changed and improved, hydraulics were changed as far as cylinder sizes, different companies did different things depending on need. But the actual design was not AMC - it was Bendix, Delco, Kelsey-Hayes, and other companies, who did the engineering behind the brake systems. 
AMC wouldn't have deleted something just to save a single brake line. 
I have a whole 3 months worth of brake training materials, including AMC training materials, Delco, MOPAR, Ford, Bendix and others, that explain in great detail all of the valving, and under exactly which conditions which one does what. There's more to it than the simple Internet explanations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2018 at 9:53am
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

Sorry, if you'd run a lot of brake lines for cars with disk brakes and a combo valve, or for that matter, eve a drum brake car, you'd maybe realize that the SIMPLE part is under the car and you simply take the tools and supplies down with you and run a SINGLE line back, and then to the left and to the right rear wheel.
The REAL trouble is under the hood and no lift in the world will solve that if the engine and cross member are in place. If the car was a roller with no engine and no cross member, raise the car and stand in the engine bay....
But you run a line from the master, back to the firewall, back behind the engine down low, under the blower motor, then to the right inner fender and down to the valve. Then from the valve BACK across to the left side, under the master and power booster, around the steering column to the left inner fender and out a hole to the left caliper hose.
Then you run a THIRD line, this time from master to combo valve and that one runs the rear brakes. Then there's a short line from the valve to the right front wheel.
All of this is done in the wheel wells, then you stand on something and crush your rib cage and leave over those big fenders to get to the lines down low, to the valve, and to the firewall BEHIND the engine, yeah, down low, between engine and firewall. 
I have to remove some of the line clip screws from under the car, some from laying in the engine bay, some from standing in a metal milk crate leaning over the right fender and reaching around and through the right hood hinge......... nope, not a lift in the world would help there. 
It is a lot of up and down because you are getting up on a crate and laying across fragile fenders that dent easily (that's what Javelin fenders do) and laying across the engine and then getting DOWN to reach into the wheel wells..........
Not much is really done under the car, wish it was, that's simple - you take everything you need with you and stay under it until it's done. 
Three lines traverse the firewall side to side, behind the engine and under the wiper, blower motor, around the booster, etc. and down low......... only one goes to the back under the car (besides the axle lines)
I don't agree completely with you. I've replumbed brakes lines too. In my case The lift is still easier.
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