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One piece axles and sealed bearings

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Green AMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/15/2018 at 7:49pm
Calling Moser & Dutchman this week. I like how Moser shows the set 9 bearings done on the Jeep axles but dosent show car axles (I know they make them Just no info on line) Dutchman shows car axles with measurements  but shows a Green style ball bearing, Green was a company name now called Bearing Technologies I think
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matty 401 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty 401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/18/2018 at 9:23am
i am running Doc Diff one piece axles in my Matador and in my sons Hornet wagon  we have had zero problems they come with screw in studs  and are cut to fit  i am running a spool in my Matador  so i did not need to cut mine 
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Airdrie AMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airdrie AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/20/2018 at 11:01pm
To answer the original poster yes I have moser axles in my AMX with the green brand bearings, put the axle together 10 years ago and is holding up fine with drag radials.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/21/2018 at 3:18am
Servicing tapered (two piece) axles requires a hub puller and a dial indicator. The bearings themselves come off the shafts pretty easily, but getting the hub off takes some work. 

Servicing flanged (one piece) axles requires a press capable of at least 20 tons and you have to press both the bearings and their retainers. 

Just depends on what shop equipment you have.

I think the tapered axle is a more secure design because the axle shaft is retained inside the housing (and therefore the wheel retained to the vehicle) by a solid shoulder on the axle shaft that butts up against the bearing. No way for the axle shaft to slide out of the bearing. The flanged axle is less secure because the axle is retained inside the housing not by a shoulder butted up against the bearing, but by the bearing being pressed onto the axle shaft with 20 tons of force and a locking ring pressed over the bearing with another 20 tons of force. That 40 tons of force is what holds the wheel to the car. The axle may slide out of the housing if that force is exceeded or if the bearing and retainer become heat damaged and lose their grip on the axle shaft. 

I've seen flanged axles with tapered roller, and non-tapered roller, and plain ball bearings. They all work. The tapered roller bearings are probably the best for side loads. 



Edited by FSJunkie - Jul/21/2018 at 3:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/21/2018 at 9:04am
Not if you are really good - you can cut that retainer off easily, and even relieve the tension on the bearing before pressing it off.
I've done many dozens of them over the years. 
Yes, some will pop hard and want to send the axle clean out of the press - but if you snip the retainer, it helps.
and by that I mean cut the retainer while not even marking the axle or getting it very hot. Requires patience and practice but I used to slice one exhaust pipe off another and leave the other pipe untouched and almost cool enough to touch.  I've done it with bearing retainers, too - so pressing is more safe.

And my press isn't 20 ton............ it's possible the shop I worked in in the 70s and 80s had a stronger press but I wonder since it was mounted on a bench and we never failed to get a bearing off.

As far as the axles/bearings setup - again, all people are doing is converting AMC systems to the same sort of thing used for decades in the other car makers' axles. No big deal.
If it was good enough for Ford and the others, well........ on the OTHER hand, I see AMC rear axle bearings still going strong after 3 and 4 decades while others have failed or needed replacing, so there's something to the AMC design, too. I bet I've replaced ten times as many non-AMC axles and bearings as I have AMC and I used to work in a shop that was formerly part of a Rambler dealership. 

Anyway, like Airdrie said - no problems, they'll work fine and don't sweat the cutting to length for certain brands, either - just bevel the edges after cutting and don't get them too hot when cutting. Find a shop with a liquid cooled band saw if you are that concerned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/25/2018 at 9:30pm
Well Moser won't do a set 9 tapered bearing on a AMC car axle like they do on a Jeep axle.They say there different ends ? They also don't recomend autocrossing with the ball bearings. Dutchman also they only do ball bearing and also said no autocross told me to convert to a full floater. The car is on hold while I fix my wifes Jeep right now then I will pull hubs and go from there hopefully the hubs are good and can just rebuild
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2018 at 9:52am
interesting that both Dutchman and Moser only offer the ball-bearing.   Curious if any offer flanged axle shafts machined for the stock Set5 tapered roller bearing with a custom retaining sleeve?   Not sure if there's enough room between the bearing and seal for a proper thickness lock-ring (part of issue with the Set9 or Green-style ball bearing), so may need a larger ID seal and ground OD lock ring or a sleeve then lock ring to get proper axial retention. 

The thrust block and stock-type shims to set end play would need to be used.  

Always the option to weld-on a different housing end ... could weld-on snouts for floater hubs, but fair bit of custom work and best if fit stronger tubes. Simpler just to get a 9". 

Thanks,RD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airdrie AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2018 at 10:48am
Originally posted by Green AMX Green AMX wrote:

Well Moser won't do a set 9 tapered bearing on a AMC car axle like they do on a Jeep axle.They say there different ends ? They also don't recomend autocrossing with the ball bearings. Dutchman also they only do ball bearing and also said no autocross told me to convert to a full floater. The car is on hold while I fix my wifes Jeep right now then I will pull hubs and go from there hopefully the hubs are good and can just rebuild
 

Dealing with Moser can be frustrating... whoever you spoke to there is giving you false info, I have ordered a few sets of axles the first couple going back 8 to 10 yrs ago came with the green bearings. In more recent years they came with the timkens. I too got false info there until I dealt with Shane (or Shawn its been a few years) he was the go to guy there for AMC. To be clear these were car model 20 axles. The last set I ordered I got some "expert" there telling me he wouldn't ship the axles without me sending the old ones in to them, I got ahold of Shane and gave him the measurement like I'd done the last 4 times and got what I ordered. Honestly I will not build another model 20 for the hastle and lack of gear choices plus there are better cheaper options out there now.
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