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AMC Spirit Rally Car

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73Gremlin401 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73Gremlin401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/30/2017 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by jebidia24 jebidia24 wrote:

It took awhile but I got some quick pics of the engine out of the car with most of it's accessories removed. I am a little concerned over the natural angle the engine sits in the spirit vs the 924 in terms of intake manifold and exhaust, they may need to be modified.


Not quite sure I follow you with the 'natural angle' the engine sits - are you referring to front/rear pitch, or that the motor lays over slightly on its side?  Either way - why is it a concern?  If all three of the mounts (2 engine, 1 trans) were in good shape the engine would be sitting where the engineers intended.  I'm curious as to your worries that it's position isn't the same as in a 924.  Very different cars, and the Porsche was fuel injected, so completely different induction setup.

Only one pic posted, the one with the motor already removed - so maybe the other pics that you put up that didn't load explain more...


Edited by 73Gremlin401 - Oct/30/2017 at 10:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/31/2017 at 7:03am
73Gremlin401,
I am referring to the angle at which the engine lays over on its side. The reason I am concerned with the 924 is that (although fuel injected) it is the only performance car which uses the EA831 that has aftermarket support.  The plan is to use as much 924 engine parts to give the 121 a little extra pep as possible.  The AMC 121 and Porsche/VW 2.0 are so close that the 121 has plugs where the fuel injector would go.  There are some 924 owners who like to go ,for performance and simplicity purposes, back to carbs.  So Redline/Weber makes a dual DCOE kit for the 924.  I was hoping to use this kit on my engine but with the difference in mounting angle the carbs would point down at about 15 degrees.  The max a DCOE can be off horizontal is 5 degrees.  Porsche likely mounted the engine like this because of the lower sloping hood line of the 924 and the extra space needed for the fuel injection system.  I will likely still use the Redline/Weber kit but I will have to modify the manifold or build a new one.  Then the only question is whether or not it will fit between the head and the brake booster/master cylinder.  I could also make a manifold (lots of work) for dual downdraft carbs but I like the look and performance of DCOEs.  I will also likely have to make a custom header as the 924 units will not work with the amc engine mounts, but that's not as big of a deal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73Gremlin401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/31/2017 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by jebidia24 jebidia24 wrote:

73Gremlin401,
I am referring to the angle at which the engine lays over on its side. The reason I am concerned with the 924 is that (although fuel injected) it is the only performance car which uses the EA831 that has aftermarket support.  The plan is to use as much 924 engine parts to give the 121 a little extra pep as possible. 


Ah - ok, that's kind of what I was assuming.  Changing the tilt of the motor would also change the tilt of the transmission, so I don't see that as something worth attempting as it could wind up opening up a whole nuther can of worms that's just not worth chasing around. 

On the other hand, in most cases, hood profiles and openings are un-restricted in rally, so if you do choose to create your own intake manifold, the sky is quite literally the limit.
 
Thinking about the stock AMC intake manifold, and this is going back, waaaay back in my memory of my brief stint with the Team Highball 2.0L Spirit, is that they were getting gracious amounts of power and torque using the stock (or at least stock appearing) AMC intake, with, if memory serves, a Motorcraft 2100 2bbl carb from a 304 V8.  That's a good amount of CFM (probably in the 350-400 range) for a 2.0L motor, and a dirt cheap/dependable set up.  The Holley 2bbl carb (essentially, the primary half of a classic 4bbl Holley) would also be a good choice with up to 500 cfm.  

While I respect your desire to use as much of the 924 style setup as possible, for rally use, and parts availability/cheapness, using what you've got with a little alternative engineering may serve your better, at least in the short term as you develop the other bits of the car.

On the motor mounts, IIRC the front pair are fluid filled to help deal with the 2.0s inherent shakiness.  For rallying, going with solids would be the way to go (at least solid rubber/urethane) which will help dramatically with keeping the clutch linkage in line.

Hope this helps!

SFAIK, the 77 AMC version of the motor actually had a slight CR advantage over the Audi version; I'm not sure if that is true for the 78 and 79 versions however. 

The other thing to consider is that AMC used carbs only because the dealer service departments of the day had zero background with fuel injection, AMC wisely chose to not open that can of worms with their dealers. 
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77 Matador Wagon 360/727.
81 Jeep J10 LWB 360/4-spd
83 Concord DL 4-dr 258/auto

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/03/2017 at 7:58am
I don't know what is up with the pictures, I can view them all from my computer but on my tablet I only get the one of the empty engine bay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pit crew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/03/2017 at 10:49am
Originally posted by jebidia24 jebidia24 wrote:

I don't know what is up with the pictures, I can view them all from my computer but on my tablet I only get the one of the empty engine bay.
Photobucket changed it's terms of service a little bit ago. If you don't have the $400 a year type account now you can no longer link pictures to other web sites like this one for instance. All we see of you pictures is a placeholder from Photobucket saying you have to update your account in order to host pictures.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote g-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/03/2017 at 11:51am
Originally posted by jebidia24 jebidia24 wrote:

I don't know what is up with the pictures, I can view them all from my computer but on my tablet I only get the one of the empty engine bay.

Can you perhaps try to insert the pics directly into your post.
I have successfully done that in the past.
Would really like to see the pics.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/03/2017 at 1:34pm
g-man,
I either can't get that to work or I do not know how to do it.  I did install a google chrome (because I use google chrome) media extension which allows me to view photobucket pictures without the costly subscription.  I am interested in anyone's ideas to fix this as I would like to share more pictures as I go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/04/2017 at 7:43am
Use the full reply editor (the angled arrow to the right in the editor) and it will give you an option to upload pics directly to the site. For those using Firefox there is an add-on that will properly display Photobucket linked photos. You have to install it on your computer or tablet though (not sure it works with a tablet).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73Gremlin401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/05/2017 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

Use the full reply editor (the angled arrow to the right in the editor) and it will give you an option to upload pics directly to the site. For those using Firefox there is an add-on that will properly display Photobucket linked photos. You have to install it on your computer or tablet though (not sure it works with a tablet).


Thanks for this Farna!  works perfectly with Firefox, didn't even have to reboot my computer, or restart Firefox.  Perhaps this should be a forum sticky?
73 Gremlin 401/5-spd.
77 Matador Wagon 360/727.
81 Jeep J10 LWB 360/4-spd
83 Concord DL 4-dr 258/auto

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebidia24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/04/2017 at 9:53am
Haven't got much done in the last couple of weeks but I finally got some work done this weekend.  Removed all of the parts from the inside of the engine bay (with the exception of the steering column) I could get to from the engine bay and removed both front fenders and the front air dam and headlights/bezels.  I will leave the suspension and sub frame stuff for when I get it up on the lift.  Since this I have also removed the doors and began disassembling them and started the interior stripping.  I couldn't get the photos to post directly to the site so I used photobucket again (this time without any trouble) and I think most were able to get to a point where they could view them.  I know there is a firefox add-on that allows photobucket viewing (mentioned above) and there is also a chrome add-on which I am using that allows the same thing.  Hit me up if still having trouble and we can try to figure out a better solution.
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