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Bone stock 360 potential? |
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1982AMCConcord 
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Joined: Jul/13/2012 Location: Kenosha, WI Status: Offline Points: 1287 |
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 Posted: Feb/16/2019 at 8:11am |
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Wow everyone... I'm blown away by the input. Thank you for your participation. I haven't been able to read all the posts yet but I will do so as soon as possible and respond soon!! In the meantime... Keep up the good work!!!
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Boris Badanov
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Joined: Dec/14/2013 Location: NH USA Status: Offline Points: 4210 |
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Posted: Feb/16/2019 at 8:16am |
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360 is a smaller 390 or 401 with some minor exceptions.
Heads are the same, cast crank and rods but for practical purposes it will easily make the same HP per cubic inch. As much as I loved my 343s the 360 is a better motor for performance use. The 360 has better heads, better block and more cubes. If you want to do it on the cheep 300 hp should be easy. Stay away from the Torker intake. Eliminate the intake heat stove. Block it in the intake at both sides. Offy 360 is a better manifold than you were told but I would use an Eddelbrock air gap with a Carter AVS clone. Mild performance cam in the 280-290 seat (advertized) duration or a roller cam in the 260 degree range. My next 401 project uses a mild solid roller. 1.75 headers are nice but tend to have leak issues at the exhaust ports. If you use stock iron manifolds with the blocked heat stove in the intake eliminate the heat valve in the passenger side exhaust manifold. Edited by Boris Badanov - Feb/16/2019 at 1:08pm |
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Gremlin Dreams
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6768rogues
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Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6241 |
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Posted: Feb/16/2019 at 2:42pm |
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Swap to a lower rear gear ratio and hold on tight.
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Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention.
Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL. |
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Trader
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Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6916 |
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Posted: Feb/16/2019 at 5:01pm |
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Did you read the post on putting 343 dished pistons in a 360 with the 502 heads? Search SC397 or SC/397.
With what Boris and others have stated, a budget 375HP does not seem unreasonable.
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1982AMCConcord
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Joined: Jul/13/2012 Location: Kenosha, WI Status: Offline Points: 1287 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 8:02am |
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There's so many replies... I don't know where to start! I can't reply individually to everyone... but first of all.. thanks to everyone who provided insight or advice. You don't have to have built a 360... I would like to hear success stories from all v8 budget builds. So if you built a nice 290/304/343/390/401 on a budget using OEM stock style parts and the results surprised you... please talk about it. The reason I wanted to talk about the 360 is because that is what I have on the floor of my garage.
While I have been considering a lot of upgraded parts... a friend of mine recently said... "Hey maybe you don't need all that..." and he's probably right. I do want to make some power but lets face it... I have a 4dr Concord with 80-90hp I-6 engine. Even building a 300hp engine would increase the power my car came with stock by 3x. That being said... If I'm spending the money... I don't want to leave a lot of power laying on the table either. So I just wanted to see what you some of guys have come up with in the past.
I follow all of Rick's builds and his recent 360 with the 343 pistons is what got me thinking about this again. Also.. Darren... you used the same pistons in your build and were pretty happy with their quality. I have read your engine exploits and I have to say... you're effort really impressed me too. That build has come a long way and you never gave up. I know you didn't have real deep pockets but you came up with a good combo of parts on a budget that gave you nice results. I really appreciate the time guys like you and Rick have spent documenting your builds. I've spent time talking to many of you on here, email and Facebook. I just want to use the budget I have effectively and not blow money I don't have. As much as I'd want a drag strip screamer... this old Concord is a lakefront cruiser that's going to haul people and lawn cars to car shows. I want to run pump gas but still be able to give it some good throttle from time to time and not worry about breaking pistons. A lot of guys have mentioned that the OEM AMC factory pistons just aren't great and that aftermarket cast ones aren't as fragile. I also know how vital using quality parts is and how important the proper oil modifications are to longevity as well. I think I've been convinced that the 343 pistons would probably be suitable for my application but at the same time believe the Wiseco's are worth the money too. I think I'm pretty well set on using the Air Gap manifold, a good carb and a better than stock camshaft. One that would benefit from an upgraded stall converter and 3.55 gears in a Ford 8.8. When it come to cylinder heads.. I have a set of 090 and 344's... so there's flexibility there for me. So in the end... most of you guys think a bare bones budget should get at least 300hp... and with some strategic upgrades... get up to 360-375? That would be more than adequate for me but regardless I intend on getting a dyno test so I know what I've actually built. Like I said earlier.. I've been driving a 258 for 25 years... anything extra... even a peppy little 304 with a rump rump camshaft would be a joy in comparison. I'm just tired of hearing my car sound like a Jeep. Don't get me wrong.. I love that I-6 engine... but the time has come. Edited by 1982AMCConcord - Feb/18/2019 at 8:10am |
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purple72Gremlin
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Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16614 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 11:30am |
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The AMC 6 sure has a sound of all its own. Id say 300hp is easy. And tuning is worth even more for power and economy. Only thing, (In my case) I dont hear very well...so if it pings, spark knock, or detonation,...I cant really hear it..so in my case I would have to go easy on compression
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73Gremlin401
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Joined: Mar/02/2013 Location: Stmbt Sprgs CO Status: Offline Points: 955 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 11:55am |
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I agree with you that my parts matching may not be ideal, but it was/is a 'budget build' with a lot of the parts used being stuff I had laying around. For what it is, and what we've done with it, it moves the old Matador out quite nicely. Could it be better? of course, but from a 'dollars not spent' point of view, it does pretty darn good.
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73 Gremlin 401/5-spd.
77 Matador Wagon 360/727. 81 Jeep J10 LWB 360/4-spd 83 Concord DL 4-dr 258/auto  |
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PHAT69AMX
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Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5926 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 1:16pm |
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Only opinions, but if low budget... "Loose engines run better". Even vintage Z-28 302 Chevy GM docs tells'em loosen stock piston fit. And what was the stock Z-28 302 Chevy Camaro rear gears?... 3.73 If a "hobby car" not many miles, just hone and re-ring. So what if it uses a quart of oil in 1,500 miles? Stock Cast piston to Bore fit is .001-.003 on DIAMETER. That's factory new spec meant for what, 100,000 miles? Would .003-.005 really be all that bad? $0 cost for Boreing, Pistons, Balance, yada, or what? maybe $1k for Pistons, Rings, Boreing, Balance, yada. For .002-.003 difference on diameter in Piston to Bore fit? Oh, and if spend MORE $ for Forged Slugs, their "new" hole fit is looser! And YES, forged swell more and tighten up in the bores. A sheet of notebook paper is .003-.005 thick. Money is better spent on the heads imho. Valve Job, New guides, perfect circle seals, good springs, Retainers, Locks. More $, but maybe new 11/32 Stem Pro-Flow undercut lighter Valves. Avoid "mission creep". Your project, your choice. Members probably tired of hearing what my build was. A little beyond the scope you've described, but cheap Zollner cast pistons, loose piston fit, 343 block, 367 C.I. 304/360 crank and a couple little tricks to get quench, ~ 10:1. Did spend money on the '70 cast iron heads. Rubbed on Torker, Holley 750DP, cheap Cyclone headers. Cheap Hydraulic Elgin Pro-Stock Cam & Lifters, ~5.5k rpm cam & springs. Cheap inefficient B&M SuperHoleshot 3k Converter, 727, 3.73's. imho Rear Gear choice is a big factor in Intake Manifold choice. Cars weight & 1/4 speed, & Chassis Dyno, said 280-300 RWHP, pump gas, full exhaust. See burnout video link in signature. And that was done with old Mickey Thompson Soft Compound Sportsman tires... imho the single biggest cost "choice", hone and re-ring or new slugs. For a hobby car that sees 1-2k miles a year... Your project, your choice.
Edited by PHAT69AMX - Feb/18/2019 at 2:15pm |
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1982AMCConcord
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Joined: Jul/13/2012 Location: Kenosha, WI Status: Offline Points: 1287 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 1:32pm |
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I like your engine build Phat. There's not many 343's with a 360 crank out there!
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ccowx
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Joined: Nov/03/2010 Location: Yukon Status: Offline Points: 3510 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2019 at 1:33pm |
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I do agree with Phat. we sometimes rebuild engines that don't really need it. When the whole assembly is rotating, often leakage is surprisingly light on an older, looser engine. Doesn't have enough time. The engine will likely not see another 100,000 miles and may well be within spec for as long as you have it. Freshen up the gaskets, work on the heads if need be, but as long as oil pressure is good and there is no broken rings or outright damage it should be fine. In my opinion your dollars are best spent on cam and valvegear, heads and exhaust.
Your time is best spent on tuning! It is cheap and fun to play with your timing advance and get it just so. Accelerator pumps will make a huge difference to around town feel. These kind of things will make a huge difference on enjoying the car. Chris
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