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engine dies or lose of power

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First_Gear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote First_Gear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2019 at 1:44am
I once had the same thing happen on my Nova. It would run fine then out of no where die randomly or lose power. It would start right back up. I found that the pivot pin on the mechanical fuel pump fell out and the return spring on the lever broke.

Remove the fuel line to the carburetor get an empty beer bottle and see how much gas is pumping when you crank the engine. It should be quite allot. In the case of my nova it still pumped gas but not enough volume to keep the engine running reliably.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2019 at 7:39am
Does your 232 have the metal tube for the starter wire rear passenger side of the motor?
If it does, take the negative terminal off the battery, pull out the wire and check it's condition.
I chased a similar "gremlin" that I determined had to be power and not fuel. It ended up that the small leak from the rocker cover dripped into the tube and rotted the starter cable, providing an intermittent short. Now how this short back fed, while driving, on the back side of the solenoid killed the ignition is still a mystery to me.
 My only thoughts are the cable though the starter or solenoid was providing a new ground path.
 But after replacing the cable all the "gremlins" went away.
Sorry Gremlin owners - no slight on the model!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChillyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2019 at 9:08am
Changed coil in a 94 F250 twice, then changed the pickup do-dad in the distributor and ran perfectly.

My symptom was fine cold starts, run great, but after parking in for a while no spark.  Wait another beer, maybe two, and fire right up again.  So long as I didnt shut it off I was fine.  Not so much as a stumble, strangely.

When parked and shut off there was no air moving over the engine.  Engine heat soaked into bottom of distributor.  Heat would cause temporary failure of the pick-up module in bottom of distributor.  Once cool it was fine again.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2019 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

Originally posted by Lucas660 Lucas660 wrote:

I would pull the pertronix and put in a set of points. I bet that will solve your problem.


without a reason to suspect it, why?




Because it's extremely simple - and there is a reason to suspect it - most other things have been done or looked at. 
A person COULD leave the fuel cap off, or try another, but if you instantly get out and move the throttle back and see gas squirting inside, then there's gas in the carb so it's not starving. 
These are simple cars.
Coil has been replaced.
It simply stops, so it's either short of fuel in the carb, or the ignition has died. Sitting a while will either let electronics cool, or, if fuel -- let air into the tank or let fuel seep through a plugged filter or tank sock.
He's done a lot of these things, so it's a matter of narrowing things down. 
Now if he's got the tools - he could run a tach into the car and watch that - ignition dies so would tach signal, could run a fuel pressure gauge into the car - not safe but if he's CAREFUL and uses good hoses, tight clamps, and a T so there's only one line going to a gauge in the car, or even attached to the fender with a strong magnet or the handiman's secret weapon........ 

A lot of folks who have converted do keep points and condenser in the glove box........... and frankly, depending on how often this happens, I'd be inclined to switch back for a period of time and see if it acts up again. Doesn't cost a thing! Normally I'm a troubleshooter, not a parts swapper, but in this case reading two pages shows he's done a lot already and this is cheap and simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2019 at 10:42pm
Bill,
You have way more experience then me on the electrical side of the I6.
A Hornet and then a Pacer that I just went straight to that wire.
How could a shorting starter wire cause ignition failure on a running engine???
Have never figured this one out. The cars always started but never ran well or just quit until I replaced this wire.
I cannot see the electrical path that would create this failure and this was the fix. Nothing else was changed in the days before or after the wire was replaced. On the Pacer this was the only change made and it was like day and night.
Still perplexed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2019 at 10:55pm
true enough. it's a simple enough test and does eliminate a variable.
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote First_Gear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/17/2019 at 12:23am
Originally posted by Trader Trader wrote:

Bill,
You have way more experience then me on the electrical side of the I6.
A Hornet and then a Pacer that I just went straight to that wire.
How could a shorting starter wire cause ignition failure on a running engine???
Have never figured this one out. The cars always started but never ran well or just quit until I replaced this wire.
I cannot see the electrical path that would create this failure and this was the fix. Nothing else was changed in the days before or after the wire was replaced. On the Pacer this was the only change made and it was like day and night.
Still perplexed!

I know I keep talking about chevy cars on the AMC forum but my nova had a bypass ignition wire that connected to one of the terminals on the starter. When you turned the key the regular ballast resistor or wire as the case may be was bypassed so a full 12v went to the coil for faster starting. When the starter solenoid de-energized this current path was disconnected at the starter. A short anywhere along this wire would effectively ground out the ignition. This would only be true for cars equipped with a resistor wire or ballast resistor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChillyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/17/2019 at 11:23am
Originally posted by Trader Trader wrote:

Bill,
You have way more experience then me on the electrical side of the I6.
A Hornet and then a Pacer that I just went straight to that wire.
How could a shorting starter wire cause ignition failure on a running engine???
Have never figured this one out. The cars always started but never ran well or just quit until I replaced this wire.
I cannot see the electrical path that would create this failure and this was the fix. Nothing else was changed in the days before or after the wire was replaced. On the Pacer this was the only change made and it was like day and night.
Still perplexed!

I'm not Bill, but if I may offer a theory?  That shorted starter wire would be a very stout ground path, perhaps capable of dragging down battery voltage due to the heavy load.  Ignition systems become fussy when fed lower than design voltage.  Consider that a coil steps up voltage by maybe 100:1 ratio.  A four volt drop in primary voltage will cause a 28% drop in spark voltage (4/14 = 28%).  Not sure it that exactly relates to spark voltage because its an inductive "kick" caused by breakers opening, and with a capacitor in the circuit, but probably ballpark correct.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/17/2019 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by First_Gear First_Gear wrote:

Originally posted by Trader Trader wrote:

Bill,
You have way more experience then me on the electrical side of the I6.
A Hornet and then a Pacer that I just went straight to that wire.
How could a shorting starter wire cause ignition failure on a running engine???
Have never figured this one out. The cars always started but never ran well or just quit until I replaced this wire.
I cannot see the electrical path that would create this failure and this was the fix. Nothing else was changed in the days before or after the wire was replaced. On the Pacer this was the only change made and it was like day and night.
Still perplexed!

I know I keep talking about chevy cars on the AMC forum but my nova had a bypass ignition wire that connected to one of the terminals on the starter. When you turned the key the regular ballast resistor or wire as the case may be was bypassed so a full 12v went to the coil for faster starting. When the starter solenoid de-energized this current path was disconnected at the starter. A short anywhere along this wire would effectively ground out the ignition. This would only be true for cars equipped with a resistor wire or ballast resistor.
So did AMC. Pre 1974 both Chevy and AMC used Delco Remy ignition systems....Just a matter of diagnosing the problem......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fts1966 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/19/2019 at 7:50am
okay thanks for all the help so far.  I rebuild the carburetor took it all apart down to the accelerator pump and metering rob diagram.  i did find a hole in the bottom the Accelerator pump brass cover,  there is a hole with a gasket and tiny spring.  mine had a hole could not see till I go it apart and new kit.  anyway it ran a little better and bit longer.  but did the same thing.  so I'm off to get points and replace the pertronics.  also going to rebuild the fuel pump for good measure.  i do have a small tachometer it does keep up with the problem of ignition.  I do not have the starter wire on that side of the engine so thanks for that.  when it does die i can dribble some fuel in the card and it will start and idol rough then get back to normal.  I also filled up with fuel alcohol free.  so the mystery continues.  
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