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New Forged Stroker Crank

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WesternRed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/05/2016 at 3:21pm
Oh well, it was a nice idea while it lasted, that is a tone of money to lay down.
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shootist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shootist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/05/2016 at 8:21pm
That price would be to rich for me to spend on a 360 build. The thin webbing in the vast majority of 360 blocks makes it tough to shell out that much for a billet crank. This is likely true for most. So, that limits your clientele down to an already small 390 and 401 crowd. Then depending on the flange it would further limit the possible customer base unless it is offered in either flange (fortunately that would be simple enough). I wish the forged was more affordable because that would help make the line more sustainable.
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WesternRed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/06/2016 at 1:16am
Does make you wonder if the blank forging for some other motor is close enough to be machined to AMC specs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcisworthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/06/2016 at 3:06am
I asked him if there was a raw forging he could use to grind an AMC crank out of it. He said he searched high and low in the past and nothing was close enough to do it. 

I have one more company to talk to tomorrow but I suspect the outcome will be the same. 

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shootist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shootist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/06/2016 at 8:32am
Well, hopefully the news will be better. But, don't you ever wonder why they charge so much for the tooling? What is driving those costs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/06/2016 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by jcisworthy jcisworthy wrote:

I found out the initial investment to get a forged crank off the ground is going to be around 250K so that is out, at least as far as I am concerned. It would take a minimum of 50K to make casting plates and a minimum order of 200 forgings. So by the time you have something ready to grind on it is a ton of money. 


Just to toss these numbers around a little,

 50k+ for the plates
200 minimum forging order

Then +$ for the machining costs = $250k total?

Could 200 raw forgings satisfy the minimum order requirement, with or without final machining?

Assuming the raw forgings, without machining, would bring the cost down substantially.

I know it's a long shot,
but if there is a market for the raw forgings,
it may be easier to get 100 people to order finished cranks/kits
+100 people who would want raw forgings while they are available.

Even better would be designing the raw forging to be machinable for similar engine that also doesn't have a new forged crank available to it either that could share the raw forging:

Buick 400/430/455's have the same bore spacing as us, and have an even worse crank selection issue (cast stock, custom billet, or try to adapt Nailhead 401 cranks).
If the raw AMC forging was close enough, there would probably be as many crazy Buick guys lining up for one as crazy AMC guys.





Just wondering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/06/2016 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by WesternRed WesternRed wrote:

Does make you wonder if the blank forging for some other motor is close enough to be machined to AMC specs?


I think 400/430/455 Buick is the closest,
 and they don't have one either.

I'm wondering if 'our' blank could do theirs (and double the market size for it).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/06/2016 at 4:15pm
I could see the Buick and AMC cranks as interchangeable at the forging level
but balancing differences may prevent this.

I seem to remember that Buicks are externally balanced, but do
they share the same counter weight configuration as AMC?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shootist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/07/2016 at 10:09am
I believe balancing issue could be overcome easy enough. Especially if your forging is neutral balanced. The question is really more of if you can get enough offset material so that the crank itself can be balances with even the heaviest of bob weight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/07/2016 at 11:29am
I bet there is a lot more Buick nuts out there than AMC nuts.

Any time you are talking something as complex or labor intensive
as a forging die it's gonna be big bucks.


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