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which 6 cyl is in my 64 american wagon?

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: which 6 cyl is in my 64 american wagon?
    Posted: Jan/17/2018 at 6:49am
As tyrodtom says, if you're using the factory electrics you can't engage OD until over 25-30 mph -- assuming the governor is working. It can stick "off", but not likely in the "on" position -- it is centrifugal and moves "up" when spun fast enough to engage OD. Springs hold it "in", so even if in a "down" position on the trans (I seem to recall it is) it's not likely to stick "on".   If you're straight wiring it then you don't want to engage OD unless moving forward. Won't hurt to engage it in first, but it shouldn't engage in reverse. When you put the trans in reverse there is an internal OD lock-out. Even if you're backing up and flip the switch it shouldn't engage OD... but to be safe I wouldn't try it! The only danger I can see of engaging in first is there might be a hard pull on the car. I did it a few times when I was running a straight wired OD (over 30 years ago as a teen!), and no harm from split-shifting first. No good either, so I only did it a few times to see what happened... no discernible difference between 1+OD and 2nd, very little between 2+OD and 3rd. In reverse it's a different story! The freewheel clutch could be damaged -- I think it could jam in the housing, would have to look at it again to see. You can use reverse without moving the OD cable due to the internal lock-out.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auag85201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/16/2018 at 9:46pm
i took the old sled out on her maiden voyage today...i did notice the clutch slipping..the clutch pedal is very tight with no free play..i'm going to give it some free play tomorrow and see if it helps...but more than likely it will need a clutch...rock auto doesn't list them and neither does orielys....i found a couple places but they are pretty high priced....i'm guessing the spline count is the same as ford...has anyone tried to use a ford clutch on their rambler?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/16/2018 at 4:33pm

You've just enabled the car to go into overdrive by pushing the lever forward,  but it doesn't go into overdrive until it gets above the engagement speed of 25-30 mph.

You can start out in first,  or engage reverse with the lever forward,  because it isn't actually in overdrive until you're above that engagement speed.

The owner's manual does advise if you park it with the lever forward, that you put the shifter in reverse.
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auag85201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/16/2018 at 1:50pm
thanks frank....i had a plastic fuel tank from a tractor ..ii bungeed it in the back and later when the traffic clears up i'm going to take it around the block....the reason why the car wouldn't move when i let the clutch out is because the o/d cable was stuck..and it was stuck halfway between in and out...i replaced the cable and it works now...i do have a silly question...i read that if you try to take off in first or reverse while in overdrive very bad things will happen......is that only when the electric solenoid is engaged or even when the cable is pushed in?...what i mean is can i use reverse only when the cable is pulled ?....i just dont want to shred something due to my ignoranceWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/16/2018 at 6:31am
On the fuse panel of a 64. Feeds off the ACC fuse, which is in the corner above the blower fuse. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auag85201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2018 at 8:17pm
frank...where would the fuse be located?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2018 at 7:24am
First things to check if it doesn't work are the points in the governor and the solenoid. Cover easily comes off each. Just lightly file/sandpaper the points to clean. As long as the fuse is good and the solenoid is strong enough you should be good to go!

Hang a half gallon milk jug or something that holds at least a quart of gas under the hood and run a hose from the fuel pump into it. Can't go far, but can drive it around the block a few times!!  Shouldn't have a problem hanging something on the right side, away from the exhaust manifold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auag85201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2018 at 10:59pm
frank.....i looked on wiring diagrams and couldnt find a relay so i came to the same conclusion......i took the kickdown switch apart and cleaned and lubed it so it works now...as long as the governor and solenoid are ok the overdrive should work...i did a complete brake job...shoes...rubber lines...wheel cylinders and master cylinder (everything for about 100 bucks at rock auto)...i decided to pull the tank and have it boiled ..(i have a friend that owns a radiator shop so he can handle it for me)..i'm chipping away at the beast and making good progress...i also scored some ralley wheels from a ford ranger ..(they look like late 60's chevy ralley wheels)...as soon as i get the gas tank back i'll be ready for a test run
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2018 at 9:21am
One more thing -- your car never had an OD relay!! Governor, solenoid, kick-down switch is all it had. The governor is the two wire type and pretty much takes the place of the relay. Rambler OD installations with a single wire governor have a relay (64 big cars do). The single wire governor grounds through the trans case. You can replace a single wire with a two wire easily -- just run one of the terminals to ground (doesn't matter which, it's a simple switch). To use a one wire in a two wire system, you'd have to isolate the grounded side of the switch and run another wire. The two wire are the most common, luckily. The switch is contained on the cover, so you could convert a one wire to two, but would be a bit of work.

The only part hard to replace is that "ratcheting" kick-down switch. It could be worked out with a couple 5 terminal Bosch relays and a momentary switch (or two), but I haven't done it. On those the relay contacts are closed when off in one position, open in the other. Hmmm... when switch is closed relay needs to cut power to coil, but as soon as power is cut relay needs to be turned off. So the NC set of points is connected to coil, when switch is pressed the contacts open, killing coil. The NO set of a second relay could be connected to the power line of the first relay, killing the circuit as soon as the contacts close. Well, that won't work! It will, but not if the momentary switch is being held open! Then it would be a continuous loop... Not so easy!!

My first thought is to put a timer in the circuit to stop the loop, but how long? You may want to hold the accelerator down for up to a minute when passing, but maybe you're pulling a load up a long hill and it takes longer... That wouldn't be a big issue, circuit would just repeat after one minute and give a slight hesitation and reset. But what if you floor it to accelerate, takes only 20-30 seconds, then something happens in the next 10-15 seconds (under a minute) and you need to accelerate again? Car would bog still in OD.... That second scenario isn't likely to happen, but if it did it could be dangerous.

Just preliminary thoughts... someone more versed with electronics (hint Tom!!) could probably work it out easy enough. The relay on/off sequence might even be too fast, the "ratchet" switch is quick but may be noticeably slower than the relay action...  needs about 0.2 seconds of motor off to kick down (just a guess...)...

Why bother? The relays are now cheap -- $10.95 for a set of six with sockets on Amazon. Might have a little business for you Tom! $2 for relays, $1 momentary switch, maybe a $1 strip of sheet metal for a switch mount (I've used metal plumbers tape for that... switch doesn't take much pressure to push, won't hurt if mount has some springiness). But what else is needed to make it work like the factory switch, and would there be much interest? 


Edited by farna - Jan/14/2018 at 10:15am
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MARTINSR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2018 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

The expensive ones are new -- can't be much call for something like that any more! I didn't look for other sources, so there may be a less expensive option -- other than having a solenoid rebuilt. I had one solenoid that would work flawlessly on the bench, but wasn't strong enough to push the plunger in when installed. That was irritating!

Here's something to remember, and help with terminal ID. At least the seal is only $10:

"Solenoid wiring terminals with the solenoid in hand and the shaft facing out in front of you, the right hand terminal is number four and connects to the relay. The left hand terminal connects to the kick down switch. A small amount of solenoids had a third wire that was a ground if yours is one of those check your shop manual and it will confirm where the third wire goes. Most solenoids had screw in terminals, a few had internal connections with wires coming out of the solenoid. Wiring connections for both are the same.

When changing the solenoid we recommend always changing the seal in the transmission. This will prevent oil from entering into your new solenoid.
There is a seal in the solenoid itself that can;t be changed in the field. The seal that you can change is in the transmission where the shaft goes through. "


A few parts surprise me how expensive they are, most are super cheap, and the stuff lasts forever so you only buy it once.

Brian
1959 Rambler American daily driver. And I mean EVERY SINGLE day.
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