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Shackle inversion problem with new leaf springs |
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knobbler
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/13/2015 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Yep. The plate is mounted with the eye towards the rear, as shown in the service manual diagram.
A previous owner had done something back there. It had the AutoZone lift shackles to compensate for bottomed out springs and the factory shocks.
I began to question this for a bit, but after more research, I'm fairly sure that this is the original axle. The springs aren't original, of course.
The Gremlin mounting plate could be reversed like this, though because of the stud spacing, each one would need to be moved to the opposite side of the car from where it originally mounted.
The springs that were on my car (which I doubt the previous owner would have made the effort to replace) were 2-1/2" wide, as are my replacements. They also match up with the iso-clamp parts widths, so appear to be correct. All aftermarket replacements I've seen to be available are the same width.
I checked them out and agree that they would probably work, but at just under $300 a set, they're a pretty expensive band-aid. . . |
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knobbler
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/13/2015 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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I was starting to think something along these lines, but am having a little bit of trouble thinking up a good way to block the shackles while lowering the car. If I can't figure that out, I'll go the second-set-of-hands route and see where that gets me. I'm just finding it really odd that this is happening in the first place; the springs aren't arched to give a lift, and the shackle length is close enough to factory to make any difference negligible. I'm going back to the shop right now to reinstall the leaf packs. Hopefully I'll be able to track down the source of the behavior at the same time. |
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knobbler
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/13/2015 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Alright, so I've got a kind of update - things are different and unchanged.
So here we are with fasteners barely joined. In fact, the shackle mount plate bolts are only on by a couple threads, which was necessary to do to get the reach needed for the shackle bolts, and my shackle bolts don't even have their nuts on. No effective difference from where it was at when I pulled this leaf pack, though the rear is still in the air. Like the previous attempts I've made at installing these springs, I had to fight like mad to get them to this point. I'm also still unable to get the shackle into a position near the 90°/6 o'clock angle. That said, a re-read of the section of the TSM covering spring installation allowed me to notice a detail that I had overlooked, mostly because this section isn't helpful at all (due to the order of operations it details, i.e., "Install this thing, then torque it to spec. Install the next thing, torque it.", versus, "don't torque things until the car's on the ground, dummy!"). In case there are any present or future issues with the image displaying, here's a copy of the text:
So I suppose I can see how you're supposed to get different results going from back to front, but only if I fill in a lot of blanks, like setting the shackles in a rearward position and setting up a block or something to flex the spring against to make it align with (read, "reach") the front hanger. Everything I've seen and read has followed the opposite approach: install the front eye, then attach the shackles. That leaves me (ha!) with a couple questions: 1- In what order do y'all normally install you leaf packs? Front to back? Back to front? 2- Can anyone confirm the shackle pin spacing for the OE shackles? I took measurements off my Eagle, the shackles of which look to be the same as what was on the '78 AMX I had (sold it before I could remember to get a measurement from it), and 3-3/4" center-to-center seems about right. I don't think the shackle spacing is a problem, but want to confirm since this isn't a stock part. |
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Airdrie AMX
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/08/2010 Location: Alberta, Canada Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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To answer your question, start with the front spring eye bolt, lay the springs on the floor, roll in the rear end on a jack & get the ubolts on then jack up the rear & install shackles.
Now i can see the pic of the shackles and how much they are angled to the front I can see your struggle, all I can suggest is a bar inbetween the spring & top of the shackle to pry it to the rear as the weight is lowered down. Like I said the jeep I put springs in looked just like that and at the time didn't look like it was going to work. Once the shackles flipped the right way it settled a bit and was fine. |
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72 amx javelin 401 4spd
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knobbler
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/13/2015 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Laying the springs out and attaching the axle makes a lot more sense to me than getting the fronts, then rear of the springs attached and dropping the axle in (and definitely makes a lot more sense than the TSM procedure).
As I've been trying to get the shackles to pop backwards, I've been hitting the end of travel for my pry bar, since I don't have a good spot to use as a fulcrum- the bumper is too high up, there's not a frame rail, and the body edge in the rear is pinch-welded sheet. Regardless, thanks for the advice! What you're saying makes sense, I just need to figure out a good way to execute. I've got a couple ideas for things I can try in the morning. Hopefully one of them work. |
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knobbler
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/13/2015 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Little bit of an update: I didn't have the extra hands to help with popping the shackles in the right direction, so I took an approach that wasn't highest on my list of preferences. As a temporary measure, I put a pair of cheap lift shackles on in place of the last set I was using. So far they seem to be doing the trick to fix the shackle's direction of rotation and a few other issues I was having. Being the double-edged sword I expected, they've brought a couple of drawbacks, but I expect those to settle out as I finish getting things torqued down. If they don't, I just found a piece of u-channel in my stock pile that I may be able to use for making a wedge stop to get the correct shackles to rotate like they're supposed to.
UPDATE: Everything's torqued, leaf packs are flattening out, pinion angle looks alright at a glance, and things are looking pretty good. I expect that I should be able to switch over to some sane shackle length in the nearish future. The only thing that's not to my liking is that the rear end is up a fair bit higher than it should be in polite company. Thanks for all y'all's input and help with this! Edited by knobbler - Jun/02/2018 at 11:20pm |
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knobbler
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/13/2015 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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In case someone comes across this thread in the future, some explanation for what happened here can be found in a post towards the bottom of page two of this thread:
http://theamcforum.com/forum/topic94351.html Turns out that the 8-3/4" arch is what was used for HD springs, and though the item page listed the HD spring SRI number (67-521), it did not mention the springs as being a heavy duty option. The site where I bought my springs hasn't been functional for a while, but there are other vendors that offer this as a general replacement for '77-78 Gremlins, such as here: https://www.stengelbros.net/67-521-AMC-Gremlin-Leaf-Spring-Assembly-_p_2905.html Since other places are apparently lacking this detail, I suspect that the omission is probably just some kind of oversight in product description details from an upstream supplier. Or maybe they're all out to get me. Either way, the leaf packs themselves are just fine. Just be aware that there may be some fitment issues with them because of the increased arch. The End |
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