Jeep CJ brake clarity please

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   Ok, so, hi, 
Thank you for helping me in advance with my question. 
I am working on a jeep scrambler. I have a 1 ply brake booster, PV, stainless braided and solid lines. Front braided line drops extended for lift. Rear end is a Dana 44 out of an 86 CJ 7.
I bled the brakes. Rear, then front. I am disappointed because I just had a hero moment and changed the wheel cylinders on the rear drums. I totally thought my problems would be over. Took it for a test drive and I come to a slide stop instead of an aggressive stop. Then I read the technical manual for my javelin and I read there is a thing in the Porportioning valve "PV" like a pin you have to push in, and then I read on a jeep forum you have to bleed the front, then rear, then front again. Ugh!! 
Could someone just give me the 1. 2. 3.'s no BS if you know, you know. If not, please don't reply. I'm confused enough.
I want my jeep back, please help

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Casey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/26/2015 Location: Riverview, FL Status: Offline Points: 39	Post Options Post Reply Quote Casey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Jeep CJ brake clarity please Posted: Apr/26/2015 at 10:53pm
	Ok, so, hi, Thank you for helping me in advance with my question. I am working on a jeep scrambler. I have a 1 ply brake booster, PV, stainless braided and solid lines. Front braided line drops extended for lift. Rear end is a Dana 44 out of an 86 CJ 7. I bled the brakes. Rear, then front. I am disappointed because I just had a hero moment and changed the wheel cylinders on the rear drums. I totally thought my problems would be over. Took it for a test drive and I come to a slide stop instead of an aggressive stop. Then I read the technical manual for my javelin and I read there is a thing in the Porportioning valve "PV" like a pin you have to push in, and then I read on a jeep forum you have to bleed the front, then rear, then front again. Ugh!! Could someone just give me the 1. 2. 3.'s no BS if you know, you know. If not, please don't reply. I'm confused enough. I want my jeep back, please help

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19679	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/27/2015 at 7:18am
	The pin has to be pulled and held out if you have that type. You'll need to find the valve in the 86 and look at it. I don't think it has the type with the pin -- depends on year. It sounds like you don't have a proportioning valve at all, assuming the rear brakes are sliding. If the front brakes are sliding then you just have more braking power than you thought. The old Jeep doesn't have anti-lock brakes like modern cars. If you press the brakes too hard it will lock all four wheels and slide. You have to learn not to mash the pedal so hard and in a panic to modulate the brakes -- mash hard but when it slides let off then on again and repeat until it stops or you hit something. You have to let on and off the brakes yourself. You WILL stop sooner if you do that than just let it slide. That's exactly what a modern anti-lock system does when it goes into operation -- it pulses the brakes quickly -- quicker than you can on your own so it never actually locks.
	Frank Swygert

Casey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/26/2015 Location: Riverview, FL Status: Offline Points: 39	Post Options Post Reply Quote Casey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/27/2015 at 8:01am
	When I said slide I meant it creeps to a stop. Like the brakes are only like 50% effective. It takes me like 20 feet to do a 35 mph stop.

tufcj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Watkins, CO Status: Offline Points: 4092	Post Options Post Reply Quote tufcj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/27/2015 at 8:55am
	How big of tires are you running? With something like 35" tires, you'll never get the brake performance that you had with stock 29" tires. The bigger tires have more leverage, just like the longer handle on a breaker bar. Best you can do is get the grippiest pads/shoes you can find, although they won't last as long. The proportioning valve is on the drivers frame rail, right about at the firewall. My CJ7 stopped well with 37" tires, but it was upgraded to Ford 1/2 ton front brakes and TSM rear discs, as well as a disc/disc master. Bob tufcj
	69 AMX 74 Javelin AMX 67 Rogue If you need a tool and don't buy it... you'll eventually pay for it... and not have it. Henry Ford

Casey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/26/2015 Location: Riverview, FL Status: Offline Points: 39	Post Options Post Reply Quote Casey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/27/2015 at 11:13am
	Yes I have a PV and it is on the drivers frame and the little pin goes in and out when the brakes are pumped. My brother has a CJ 5 with 35's and manual brakes. He can lock them up at any speed and throw you through the windshield. Why can't I stop with enough force to feel like it's safe to drive in the road.

Casey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/26/2015 Location: Riverview, FL Status: Offline Points: 39	Post Options Post Reply Quote Casey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/27/2015 at 11:15am
	My javelin manual says something about removing the electrical plug and something else before bleeding brakes and using a tool on the PV to hold the pin. Anyone have any info on that?

tufcj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Watkins, CO Status: Offline Points: 4092	Post Options Post Reply Quote tufcj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/27/2015 at 12:01pm
	A couple of more things to check. How much vacuum does the engine pull? A big cam will hurt power brakes. Is the master cylinder correct and verified good? Bob tufcj
	69 AMX 74 Javelin AMX 67 Rogue If you need a tool and don't buy it... you'll eventually pay for it... and not have it. Henry Ford

Casey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/26/2015 Location: Riverview, FL Status: Offline Points: 39	Post Options Post Reply Quote Casey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/27/2015 at 1:23pm
	engine pulls 15hg at idle and 21 max when revved up. I have the idle set pretty low like at 700 rpm. The master cyl is newish, the little valve thingy on the power brake booster is new. The brake booster is not new but when you pump the brakes and hold the peddle and then start the jeep it does shift down like it is supposed to. I really think my problem is with the appropriate method of bleeding the brakes and or the Proportioning valve. There is something I am missing I know it. If I dont figure this out I'm going to rip the power brake system off and install a manual master and hope to get better braking action just duplicating what my brother has. I dont want to have to Google it again and get 1,000 opinions. whats up with the PV? do I hold the pin in? out? bleed the front first? i need resolutions and a path.

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19679	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/28/2015 at 7:05am
	Post a pic of the PV... or rather the Combination Valve (the official term). That will help us identify what you need to do to bleed the brakes, as there are a couple different types. It sounds like it's either a bleeding issue or the Combo valve is messed up.
	Frank Swygert

Casey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/26/2015 Location: Riverview, FL Status: Offline Points: 39	Post Options Post Reply Quote Casey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/28/2015 at 8:32am
	I totally can't see where to upload a pic. Im sure someplace on the site it explains how. I'll go digging