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Motorcraft alternator upgrade |
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Mopar_guy
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 4826 |
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Posted: May/26/2012 at 10:45pm |
After reading and researching a lot, I decided on upgrading to a Motorcraft 3G series alternator on my Javelin and it came out really nice so I thought I would pass this information along. With the added electrical load I already have and I plan on putting A/C on this winter, I wanted something that would keep up better than my 37 amp Motorola. I seen that most people are old Delcotron alternators on their swaps but IMO those are dated already and have a fair amount of voltage drop at idle. I wanted an off the shelf unit to bolt on in case it should die out in the middle of nowhere, so I went with 1996 Mustang as the application for several reasons - one it's popular. Two is that it's 130 amp and it has a 6/12 mounting orientation so it was easy to mount. The only "modification" to the alternator was to swap the pulley to a v-belt but any auto parts store can swap that should the need arise. I'm using my original belt so nothing special there. The heater hose I used is from a 2001 Chrysler Concord. I'll be happy to answer any questions if you're interested in going this.
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"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Nice job. It's a good fit and looks clean.
And no offense - but I feel the need to add this as to not perpetuate that "more power" myth or legend that obviously lives on..... Unless you have incredible load - load that car's wiring and fuse panel can't even handle, that is double what you'll ever need. a 60-80 would more than suffice, 120 would be overkill, actually. You could put in a stereo with two large amps and crank out 350+ watts into 8 speakers, run A/C and electronic injection and never need that much alternator, period. (we've covered that in great detail and length here over the years) So although that's a nice looking conversion, well done, and I wish to stress this is nothing against the change/conversion, we need to keep the true output needs in perspective for anyone looking on and "learning" - they should note you could do a 60 or 80 and have enough for all of those upgrades. (and then some) I know - I do and have done alternators and charging systems for 40 years, and used to run my Jeep in stereo contests sponsored by Alpine. I ran 2 amps, one dedicated to subs, and 8 other speakers, 4 cross-overs, etc. I had to run heavy wiring in through circuit breakers to handle the load inside. AND had fog lights, running lights, and off-road lights I used on the farm for late night repairs in the fields. I had EFI, A/C, that massive stereo, and all the lights - it kept up fine. |
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Pdok
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Apr/03/2011 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1025 |
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So why, with car manufacturers always looking for the cheap way to do everything, does a 96 Mustang need a 130amp alternator? It should be good with a 60-80amp model, too, right?
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76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap.
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Mopar_guy
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 4826 |
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Thanks for the compliment. You're right Bill, I didn't need that much power but that's what it happened to put out. What was important to me on this unit was the output at idle vs the Delcotron. It's ten times better. I hate having my lights go dim and wipers slow down at an idle at a red light. I have it fused with a 150 amp buss fuse just because I doubt it will ever put out it's max for any length of time. All the newer alternators seem to high output since the late 90's but that's when the better alternators seem to have come out.
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"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
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bigbad69
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: Ottawa, Ont. Status: Offline Points: 6668 |
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The modern alternators are smaller and cheaper than they were in 1970, so it's probably cheaper to use one part for all models regardless of the power needs. A lot of the newer alternators use the ECU for a voltage regulator, so fewer models of alternators also means less software development to control them. Software is very expense to develop, especially if government certification is involved. |
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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Step back a bit and look at what you are saying, and what you are comparing. What does a modern car have a 1970s car does not? EFI, yeah, but then EFI was used with 60 amp alternators, so that's not all of it. Myt vehicle in the contests with EFI was a 60 amp alternator. (I never even taxed it.) How about computer-controlled brakes with solenoids and sensors and motors? How about air bags, electric heated seats, electric mirrors, temp and compass in the mirror. The computers in the newer cars take a lot of power. the ABS takes a lot of power, Modern injection takes more CLEAN power than older injection. Compare the list of what newer cars have to what our cars have, and even if you add injection and a strong stereo, you aren't there yet. OTOH, the 1994 Jeep grand I parted to get the engine for my Eagle was fully loaded with all the trimmings, and it had a 60 amp alternator, and a 60 amp fuse in the PDC. It had a nice stereo, extra lights, EFI, ABS, etc. and a 60 amp alternator proving that it's enough. And like the man suggested, it's easier to use the same alternators, or at least trim down the list a bit, since they are now so much cheaper to make than they used to be. Modern technology means a lighter smaller unit with more output for less cost for the manufacturers, and fewer replacement parts to stock if they use say only 2 different units on all of their vehicles. I think bigbad hit some good thoughts. So we are back to - these cars of ours do not "NEED" that much output. However, since the masses have been convinced by a few that they do, that has become the de facto fact and "common knowledge". No matter how hard those who know the truth try to get the word out, those who "have been told" will continue to argue against logic and fact. If the lights dimmed, there were probably other issues.......... I posted the output charts here a while back, or think I did, and that should not have been an issue in a car with a GOOD electrical system. I suspect there were other issues at play, and the new alternator will simply make up for other shortcomings. (IF I didn't post the charts, I guess maybe I need to). there are a lot of variables.... and other reasons for light dimming at idle. (besides, of course, the altnerator itself not geared right, or not able to keep up) In any case, it's a great job at converting. Again, well done. Definitely a nice job and I expect the brackets should hold that baby solid and not give out in your lifetime. It's a good alternative to the Delco unit.
Edited by billd - May/27/2012 at 9:40pm |
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matty 401
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/06/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 1727 |
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i gather you made the brackets and spacer what did it cost to make them and would you make another set ??
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72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door 72 matador 304 grasshopper 68 Rogue 406 93 Cherokee 4.0 5 speed |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Those brackets are absolutely first-class. Works of art. Solid, straight, nicely finished.
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AMX North
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/13/2008 Location: Kingston Canada Status: Offline Points: 1680 |
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Nice installation and I really like your choice of alternator for ease of availability . I have had several GM cars and replaced multiple alternators on them over the years but I have only replaced one on my winter beater 96 Escort . Personally it could be conditions or bad luck but I found the GM alternators seemed to destroy the front bearing or go down with a shorted diode.
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70 AMX/390/Auto Hialeah yellow/Shadow Mask, Kevin Jones
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I've heard that only happens in Canada. So it must be the driver. I think GM had more bearing issues than the others in the 80s and earlier, can't speak for the 90 and later models, though. That's just a general observation, not a solid fact supported by charts and reports. The diode trio was a common part to replace as well. Funny, when I was sorting through various old parts - guess which pieces I still had in stock from my shop in the 80s? GM regulator, bearings and diode trio. |
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