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My '64 Rambler Classic

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rms827 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2018 at 4:55am
Originally posted by pacerman pacerman wrote:

I have some NOS door seals to fit some of the doors on your car if you need them.  They are excess to my needs.  They are in original packaging but there is shelf wear.   PM me if you need any particular seal and I'll check my group of parts. Joe


I'll PM you about them, PacerMan.

I love Galvin's but their weatherstripping is a small fortune.  With them adding in every possible option even after you give them your car's info, I'd swear I'm supposed to have 15 pieces of weatherstrip per door, LOL.
1964 AMC Rambler Classic 660

"You can think I'm an idiot, just don't talk to me like I'm one." - Batman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/27/2018 at 3:48am
OK, so no update here in about a week.  Not much to report is the reason why.  Work was slowed down by my back acting up and then I had some sort of eye infection over the weekend.  Doing better now.

At this point, I have 90% of the parts I need to do my restoration, most from Galvin's also.  Some of them Ben Galvin had to bring back down from Oregon as he's running other parts & stuff up there.  I found out they have some used parts that don't make it onto the website also.  In my case I tried to get replacement slider panels for the kick panel weather eye vents.  One he didn't have, but added that he had a used one in the back.  Cheaper too, so that was a no brainer, LOL.  I think I need to email Galvin's about the handful of parts I've had listed in the "wanted" section and see if they have them used.

I also dropped my fuel tank, found the float full of gas and thus figured out my fuel gauge reading low.  On a tip from one of the car restoration club members, I went to a local parts place to see about a replacement.  The owner was classic old school parts man; he knew parts numbers and what could work from other vehicles.  In the case of the float, he said he didn't carry them, but he recommends a Ford float from that era.  They're brass, last ages longer than plastic, and will work on almost any car of that era.  A trip a local Mustang resto store and $6 later, I've got a new float.

While I had the tank out, I decided to get it rodded out and checked also.  I took it down to the radiator shop I used for my heater core.  Turns out that Sacramento County has slapped so many environmental restrictions on cleaning fuel tanks that NOBODY inside the county line will do it.

Wonder how the county feels about unrepaired fuel tanks potentially leaking all over the roads...

Rant aside, I took it to West Sac (next town over) and got it cleaned out.  Shop agreed it was in good shape overall.  Just some varnish and a little dirt inside.

Engine...  It's been in the machine shop for weeks now.  Frustration is starting to take over too.  They told me a week initially, then told me it was just ready to go in the cleaning tank, then next time I go in, they're backlogged and still haven't even gotten it in the tank.  It seems that bringing the engine in with the cam, crank and pistons still in it is cause for massive delay.  Funny, I thought that was 20 some odd bolts and less than an hour's work for a skilled technician with air tools. 

I'm hoping they didn't screw something up and are just trying to cover for it.

Galvin's also tells me that they can only get pistons in standard, 20 over or 60 over also.  I passed that onto the machine shop and repeated my belief / hope that based on the condition of the engine it wouldn't need any real machining at all.

Lastly, I found even more work...  Pulled the rear brakes, and found a broken self adjuster cable and seepage from the rear axle seals.


1964 AMC Rambler Classic 660

"You can think I'm an idiot, just don't talk to me like I'm one." - Batman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/28/2018 at 6:21am
Hope you don't have to go 0.060" over, but the block is plenty thick for it. I think you had noted it was 0.010" over already? 0.020" won't be bad if it needs boring again. Remember, the cylinders wear more at the bottom than top. Usually more prevalent in the longer stroke sixes though (196, 258. 4.0L... a bit less with 199/232).

The shop probably has you on the "low priority" list since it's a hobby car and not a work or daily driver vehicle. I've had that issue before -- kept getting pushed back, only worked on it when there wasn't "regular" work in the shop. Went in in October, was supposed to be ready to pick up a week before Christmas that year. I ended up picking up the machined block and crank with parts in MARCH!!! Wrote them a check, then called bank the next morning and cancelled it. Got a nasty letter, but I sent a POLITE letter back explaining my costs due to the delay, and if they wanted to file in small clams court I could show the bills and they could pay me a couple hundred. Didn't hear anything again! The shop was four hours away from home at the time (it was near my dad's farm), and I'd made two trips to pick the engine up only to find it wasn't ready, though it had been promised both times. They didn't even call and tell me, though they knew I was four hours away. That's what REALLY ticked me off!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/28/2018 at 6:33am
I hear you on the delays, Farna.  I'm out $400 a month on the car club space rental, so they need to bust a move in my book.

As far as the exact size of the cylinders, I'm not sure.  My earlier post had (apparently incorrectly) assumed that the engine had been rebuilt because it had been painted red instead of the original light blue.  I also had 3 3/4 inch (roughly) diameter cylinders and I swear I saw a post or two saying that 287s had 3 1/2 inch diameter cylinders.  Later research showed me the truth there.

LONG story short though, I never had a micrometer to precisely measure the cylinder diameter.  The overall wear looks VERY minimal though, and despite the lack of cross hatching on the cylinders, there wasn't even a ridge at the top of them.

Asked Ben Galvin about that, and he wasn't sure if the blocks came cross hatched from the factory in '64 or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote gtoman_us Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/28/2018 at 5:14pm
For pistons might check with Kanter Auto. Super great to deal with and they had 30's for my 327 in stock.

Also there is Egge and are an excellent piston supplier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/28/2018 at 7:55pm
Thanks GTO.  Farna already turned me on them as possible parts suppliers.  Further recommendations from reputable forum members is always a good thing though.  I'm not sure if Galvin's has them on their list of suppliers or not.

Talked to the machine shop today.  They still haven't gotten to the machine work end of it yet, but their best guess after getting it apart and just eyeballing things is that it was likely recently rebuilt after all.  SEEMS new enough that it won't need boring either, just some touch up work with the cylinder hone.

Of course that's all going by eyeball...  We may micrometer things out and find cylinder taper or something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/04/2018 at 6:33am
Another update.  I try to keep personal drama off the board but part of the reason there's been so little work done the last couple of weeks is that I live across the street from a large park with a community center and library.  Sound great?  We thought so too, BUT I've spent nearly every night the last 5 1/2 years chasing everything from kids having sex to drug dealers out of the park.  They all seem to like to park on our street and sometimes break into our cars too.  No support from police either, at least till I finally had enough and threatened to report them to state and federal oversight agencies and sue them.  NOW they suddenly care.

Anyway, things have been kinda hellish on that level lately, and it's lead to little night time sleep which in turn doesn't make for productive car time.  None the less, I have got some things done lately.  The last few days I've been down at the car club it's been mostly scrubbing down the engine bay and degreasing it.  I pulled the rest of the blower motor hosing out too so I could clean it up.  Ben Galvin thought for sure that are was going to be rusted out too, LOL.


I've gotten creative with my time too...  I figure as long as I'm playing one man neighborhood watch, I'd do some parts painting in the evening in the garage.  Two birds with one stone.


The water pump looks great in the proper blue instead of 327 rampart red.  I'm especially happy with how the used transmission inspection cover from Galvins cleaned up and painted.

Granted none of this is getting the suspension work I still need to do done, BUT at least it's progress. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/05/2018 at 11:02pm
Didn't think I'd have anything new to report this soon, BUT...

Riding the machine shop like a horse is apparently paying off as they're actually getting work done now.  Mystery solved about the condition of the engine also:

It was a half-assed rebuild that was done before, and semi recently.  Apparently all that was previously done was turning the crank, taking a ridge reamer to the top of the cylinders and replacing the head gasket.  Hence we get an engine looking like it was and wasn't rebuilt.  Crank needs to be resurfaced/turned again and will need 30 over bearings.  Cylinders...  They had between .006 and .008 taper across the board.   I could probably get away with not worrying about it IF the car was going to be a driven 3 times a year show car, but it'll get driven enough to mean it should be done right.  I'm getting hardened valve seats installed on the heads also.

From the crank condition, it seems like the engine has been suffering from low, contaminated oil for a long time.  No evidence from the condition of the rest of the engine that it's a low oil pressure issue.  The last owner said that the guy he bought it from had the timing crazy advanced too.


So now, I'm trying to find pistons, rings and bearings.  Everybody has only a few mismatched sizes, if they have parts listed at all.  Galvin's and Kennedy don't have 287 pistons on site.  Ben Galvin told me he has them when I was down there last, but that doesn't help me price and material compare now.

Egge has the pistons in stock or 30 over.  And the price is only a little over 4 times what they'd cost for a small block Chevy. Angry   Strangely enough, Egge says the RINGS also work on:

1955 Pontiac 287 CID
1961-79 Rambler 287 CID, 290 CID, 304 CID
1955-64 Ford 292 CID
1964-67 Buick 300 CID
1949-53 Oldsmobile 303 CID
1956-57 Plymouth 277 CID
1955-56 Chevrolet 265 CID

Really makes me wonder just how rare some of the parts we're paying out the wazoo for really are.  The machine shop can get my cam bearings for $38 for (another) example.  That's half what the usual sources are charging. 

As long as I'm on a bit of a rant...  I'm understanding Frankenramblers a bit more now.  Egge sells a full rebuild kit for the 287 for $1605, not including tax and I'd still have to get the block and heads worked at a machine shop.  I could get a small block chevy crate motor and reconditioned TH350 for what this motor is costing me.  Sometimes it's not a question of AMC "not being good enough", it's a matter of being practical with one's money and keeping the car rolling in an affordable way.

Given what new pistons are going to cost, I may just have the cylinders sleeved instead if it's cheaper.


Edited by rms827 - Jul/05/2018 at 11:08pm
1964 AMC Rambler Classic 660

"You can think I'm an idiot, just don't talk to me like I'm one." - Batman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/07/2018 at 9:44am
EXACTLY!!! But you'd need a rear axle (late model Ford Ranger fits well) change the rear suspension. Not really that hard, there are a few options there. Oh, and a custom made driveshaft ($200-300). So figure about $1000 for rear axle/rear suspension/driveshaft (could be less or more depending on your skill and tool set, and local used prices and your scrounging abilities). So there is some added costs. So a used late model EFI engine with OD trans starts to look real good, and you get the added reliability to go with the extra work. That's fine for a daily driver/resto-mod car, but if you want to restore you're stuck with what you have.

You can still keep it mostly AMC with a 4.0L and AW4 from a 2WD Jeep (or a 2WD AMC car three speed auto). If you use the AW4 you need a 3.31-3.5 rear axle gear, same if you go to a GM OD auto trans.  The 4.0L will have about the same power as the 287 -- maybe a bit more.  Subtract 28% from the stock 287 power rating of 198 hp (gross) and you get the approximate net rating of 143 hp -- compared to 190 hp for the 4.0L.  The 287 produces its max torque at a lower rpm though. The 4.0L is rated at 220# @4000 rpm, the net equivalent of the 287 is 202# @ 2600 rpm... I would say close to the same, but the 287 probably "feels better" taking off since torque maxes sooner. Both will start producing good torque in the 1500-1800 rpm range.  I have a hopped up 4.0L/AW4 in my 63 Classic wit a 3.55 rear axle. I'd put it against a stock 287 any day and expect to win a drag race, maybe not by much. I suspect it will pull as much (or more) load as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/07/2018 at 9:47am
Oh, one more thing! I suspect the pistons that use the same rings are equally hard to find/expensive. You might check though. If piston pin height is close you might be bale to mod one (offset bushing in rod or piston pin hole?) to work. Don't know what that might cost though, might not be worth the effort. Bushing for pin size wouldn't be an issue though.
Frank Swygert
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