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PCV & oil burning U may be all wrong !!

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billd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PCV & oil burning U may be all wrong !!
    Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 8:46pm
I'll get you some links on Monday - sites showing how lowering pressure aids ring sealing and can actually increase HP at high RPM.
Some actually advocate getting to 7-8 inches vacuum.
I did test mine a couple years ago when I was concerned about intakes leaks and oil consumption, I'll run those checks again.
It's pressure differential increases, not so much running a vacuum.
OTOH, remember how those "road draft" tubes were shaped and where they ran? Like blowing across the end of a straw, you can eventually get water out of your glass if you blows across the end of the tube so they were looking at lowering pressures, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by 69 ambassador 390

Just remember that we are talking pressure differentials and not vacume.  An engine with zero Hg. on a guage at the manifold actually has 14.7 P.S.I. of manifold pressure.  It is just equal to the pressure outside the manifold and thus no differential.  The goal is to keep the crankcase pressure from being above atmospheric to aid ring sealing.  It doesn't take much as it is acting upon a couple of inches of surface area on each ring.  An added benefit is the P.C.V. system removes combustion by products and stops formations of organic acids in the crankcase.  This is just Jr. high school science.  For those of you who don't run a P.C.V. system I suggest you change your oil very often and base that interval on time not miles.  How long do you want to leave sulfuric and hydrochloric acid on your engine parts?  Modern oils combat the acids with nuetralizing agents but these wear out quickly and cannot keep up with the formation of acids in engines that have excessive moisture in the crankcase or sit for a long period.  If you don't drive your vehicle much or for extended time then I would change the oil every couple of months at most, regardless of miles.  You could get some Ph. test strips and test the oil if you wanted.  You are looking for nuetral Ph.  You might be suprised the learn how acid your oil actually is. 
Hes right.   I remember this in school now.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 5:12pm
Just remember that we are talking pressure differentials and not vacume.  An engine with zero Hg. on a guage at the manifold actually has 14.7 P.S.I. of manifold pressure.  It is just equal to the pressure outside the manifold and thus no differential.  The goal is to keep the crankcase pressure from being above atmospheric to aid ring sealing.  It doesn't take much as it is acting upon a couple of inches of surface area on each ring.  An added benefit is the P.C.V. system removes combustion by products and stops formations of organic acids in the crankcase.  This is just Jr. high school science.  For those of you who don't run a P.C.V. system I suggest you change your oil very often and base that interval on time not miles.  How long do you want to leave sulfuric and hydrochloric acid on your engine parts?  Modern oils combat the acids with nuetralizing agents but these wear out quickly and cannot keep up with the formation of acids in engines that have excessive moisture in the crankcase or sit for a long period.  If you don't drive your vehicle much or for extended time then I would change the oil every couple of months at most, regardless of miles.  You could get some Ph. test strips and test the oil if you wanted.  You are looking for nuetral Ph.  You might be suprised the learn how acid your oil actually is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote A0M190Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 9:41am
Originally posted by tsanchez

Bill tell you what why dont you measure that so called vac in the crankase and get back to me.
 
 
I'd have to agree with this guy.  The amount of Vacuum in the crankcase has to be minimal since the oil fill tube is open to atmosphere through the breather.  Once you include the voulume of the leakage past the rings while the engine is running which adds to the flow into the crankcase, the actual vacuum has to be about zero.  I think the PVC system just gives the blow bye a place to go rather than making the rings work better.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AMX401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 4:16pm

My PCV is sucking oil as well... the baffle on the bottom of the air gap intake only covers the pcv grommet.  The pcv I used is a purolator PV765 which seems to have a much higher flow than my old stock one.  Couldn't locate the Fram FV164DP locally and the two places I tried that had the standard motor products V164 were the big aluminum body style like my purolator, though Standard Motor goes under Blue Streak up here.  Popped my old pcv in and just ordered 3 NOS ones off ebay...unfortunately I don't know when I'll be able to do a road test as they are finally paving the gravel road that goes to our place, sure will be nice to have a dust free car!

Jeff ** 74 Javelin AMX ** 401, 8 Speed
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 10:48am
Maybe use one of these or something similar if you want to keep the stock PCV (this one's for a new Hemi ... but could be adapted to an AMC ... not a cheap solution though):
 
 
  • From the factory excess crankcase vapors and residual oil are vented back Into the intake manifold
  • The Moroso Air-Oil Separator is plumbed Into the PCV system and captures this oil mist to reduce detonation and deposits on the intake track including the valves themselves
  • Billet Aluminum body compliments any engine compartment and can be polished, chromed or powder coated for a custom look
  • Has a bottom drain with an elbow that makes draining the collected oil a mess-free proposition
  • Includes brackets for both 5.7 and 6.1 engines and includes PCV hose for plumbing into the PCV system
  • http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13400

     
    Hope this helps, RD.


    Edited by Red Devil - Jul/30/2010 at 10:49am
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    tsanchez View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/29/2010 at 10:45pm
    Bill tell you what why dont you measure that so called vac in the crankase and get back to me.


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    billd View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/29/2010 at 10:09pm
    Actually, the PCV will close off at very high vacuum. It's a two-way valve. Decel for example, it will close off. It's double-ended inside.  It's totally amazing the holes in the understanding on the thing...  ;-)
     
    Here's ANOTHER reason to maintain low pressure in the crankcase (it's not all about pollution control):
     
    I've got books on ring design, how they work, why the low pressure in the crankcase is important, etc.
     
    Here's the PCV valve centered at cruise. Drop to decel and the valve moves up, blocking flow, or restricting, depending on vacuum levels.
     
     
    Further - excessive bearing clearances add to oil consumption. Got worn bearings? There's a good chance it will cause more oil consumption, besides other effects. Literally, replacing bearings and getting back into tolerances can reduce oil consumption without ever pulling a head off the engine.
     
    Ever seen a valve job increase oil consumption? Refer to above - increasing the vacuum of the running engine can cause oil consumption because now there's higher difference than before between the vacuum on top compared to below, especially with an unserviced PCV system.
     
     


    Edited by billd - Jul/29/2010 at 10:10pm
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    PHAT69AMX View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/29/2010 at 6:27pm
    Thanks raysinvegas, made the correction.
     
    Thanks 69 ambassador 390, agree, PCV Valves can gum up, wear out, not function / seal correctly.
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    Post Options Post Options   Quote raysinvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/29/2010 at 5:34pm
    Originally posted by PHAT69AMX

    I can understand raysinvegas aggravation.
    You mean 70amxvegas. Wink  He's a good friend, so I don't mind being associated with him! LOL
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