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amc 360 cam/dist.gear problem

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Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC V8 Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made V8 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695
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Topic: amc 360 cam/dist.gear problem
Posted By: twister01
Subject: amc 360 cam/dist.gear problem
Date Posted: Mar/22/2008 at 2:37pm
   Need help!   I have a 360 bored 40 over ,edelbrock alum heads,msd pro billet dist, lunati cam with msd cam gear.  I just got the motor broke in with about450 miles on it and the teeth on the dist are all chewed off! the teeth on the cam gear are also chewed pretty bad . Does anybody have an answer to my problem ? Depth all looks good wear pattern on the gear are perfectly centered. Thanks for your help .
 
        thanks Dave



Replies:
Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Mar/22/2008 at 2:52pm
did you start with both new gears from the same maker?
Did you check the oil supply slot in the cam gear for any flashing obstruction?


Posted By: twister01
Date Posted: Mar/22/2008 at 2:54pm

Both cam gear and dist were new and are MSD brand, oil pump slot is clear of any debree etc.



Posted By: 73hornut
Date Posted: Mar/22/2008 at 3:59pm
The oil passages from the #1 cam gear through to the cam distributor gear, are probably blocked.

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Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 12:40am
How wet were the gears when you pulled it apart?
Did you have them coated with any assembly lube before firing?
How easy does your oil pump turn by hand?


Posted By: twister01
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 2:24am
I will check oil passages, I coated everything really good with assembly lube, all lifters,cam lower end of dist,all bearings,lower end etc. I will check oil pump to see how much force it takes to turn in by hand.
 
 
                Thank you for your help and replies, Dave
 


Posted By: scott
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 2:28am

Click here:  http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1180919787/0#0 - http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1180919787/0#0

You're not the only one that's had this problem.   


Posted By: twister01
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 3:05am
 Thanks for the link looks like there is alot of  people with same broblems!


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 8:51am
There should not be, and there's always a logical answer.
Some new covers a while back had an alignment issue.
In some cases, the oil pump takes too much force - ie too much pressure, - and that coupled with the fact that it for a fraction of a split second nearly hydro-locks, hammers on those gears. Contact bulltear for a solution there.
Certain cam gears causes an issue blocking oil flow to the gears.
I prime by hand, using a speed-handle and a home-made bit that goes to the oil pump. I can FEEL what's going on besides watching. The bit I use should be soaked with oil, I should be able to turn the handle and see oil coming through to the gear down there.
Dist shaft runout or alignment can be an issue (see comment on faulty covers above)
If all things are right, there should be no issue at all.
I always prefer to stick with the gears I took out of the engine when I do a rebuild and do everything possible to use them again, and also check for how well/easy it is to get the distributor back in, and how the pump turns when priming.


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Posted By: twister01
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 12:33pm
I install assembly lube and then prime my moters by hand w/ 1/2" drill motor also before start up. new gears on the way then re-install.I will try looking into relief on housing Thanks forall your help. Dave


Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 12:52pm
Are you still running the oil filter bypass in the filter adapter or is it blocked off?
Hate to see any of the metal pushed through to the crank.


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 12:59pm
and embed in the soft bearings and cut things up.........

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Posted By: amxess
Date Posted: Mar/23/2008 at 2:29pm

From experience, I'd only use a matched original AMC set of distributor/drive gears, or use Bulltear's matched set only. Chrysler dealers were selling distributor gears last few years but not drive gears and the distributor gear would chew up an original drive gear real fast.

As far as timing gears sets for oiling, the "Rollmaster" brand is the best I've seen available as you don't have to worry about lining up the hole from the cam/gear as the Rollmaster has a ball bearing recess that will get the oil to the gears no matter if the cam hole is a little off or not.
 
amxess


Posted By: twister01
Date Posted: Mar/24/2008 at 12:04pm
 Sorry for the late responce, just got in from work!     i will look into both the rollmaster and Bulltears . I'm going to pull the oil pan and try to flush the motor ,crank ,cam bearings etc just so I no its clean and ready to go.
 
     Thanks for all your input and sugestions, Dave


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Mar/24/2008 at 10:43pm
The distributor gear wearing out/failing too soon is a problem on other makes as well, buicks and fords have the same issue with cam gears being chewed up.  I remember cheverolets had a huge problem with the entire camshaft wearing out on production engines prematurely.   The cam gear issue is a common problem, not an AMC specific problem, and the reasons why they happen to an AMC have already been mentioned.  Good parts (when you can find them) and proper engine specs/tolerances are the solution. 
 
FWIW I have the original cam gear in my 343 I replaced my distributor 6 years ago with an MSD and just dropped it in with the installed gear right out of the box.  Engine was rebuilt last spring and used the orginal cam gear and the same MSD distributor. Funny thing though that may have worked in my favor I had that MSD distributor sitting brand new in a box  indoors for ten years so it was already 4 years old when I intsalled it. Distributor gears may have been better then?


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Mar/24/2008 at 11:10pm
LOL, you may be onto something! You had an old gear made before some of the bad ones came out???
 
>>The cam gear issue is a common problem, not an AMC specific problem, and the reasons why they happen to an AMC have already been mentioned.  Good parts (when you can find them) and proper engine specs/tolerances are the solution.  <<
 
Yup.  But you know how rumors and wive's tales go - and if seen on the web, it MUST be true!


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Posted By: Red
Date Posted: Apr/05/2008 at 10:11pm
this is a common problem. But I know how to fix this problem. You probably aare using a aftermarket timing chain and gears. Always use a bronze diss gear. Then underneath the timing cover there are your oil plugs that supply oil to the lifters.  Remove the small pipe plug on the DRIVER side. Next drill  1/16th hole in the center of the plug and screw it back in. the cam and diss gear will then get enough oil. This will solve your prob. I work for Herman Lewis Racing. The godfather of AMC.  Any more questions just give us a call at (304-253-9643) Mon-Sat 9 to 6 est. We are a full service auto machine shop,specializing in AMC performance. We now are making aluminum heads and intakes.Herman has 19 world records and over 200 wins with his 69 amx.


Posted By: GremlinXman
Date Posted: Apr/05/2008 at 10:31pm
 Red,
 That is just plain wrong. You should not have to make any modifications if the parts are correct and not worn and installed correctly. If the parts are not, no amount of redirected oil willl "fix" your problem.  You must make sure the oil pump shaft hole in the timming cover is not worn out. More then .002 runout will wipe a gear out. Next use a matched set of new or used gears, then be sure the oil holes are in the cam gear. Make sure the casting flash is removed from the oil supply grove in the cam timming gear, cam bearing is installed properly, cam has hole for oil path,make sure you install the fuel pump eccentric with the word rear facing the engine. Make sure you use timing cover locating dowel pins. Be sure the gasket is removed from the cover where the distributor goes in. Many times they stay on the cover and folks don't realize and add another gasket. Then there was a bad batch of covers made and bad batch of gears made. I have been using the Bultear matched sets the past few years with good results.
 As you can see there are many reasons you can have problems with your distributor gear set. Folks that have added ways to get more oil on the gears have just coincidentally fixed the real issue and thought the extra oil is what did the trick.
 My .02
 Davis
 Amc Team racing
 PS.
 Does Herman have any intakes available right now? I have a buyer for one.
 
  
 


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72 Gremlin X was 360 Auto ran 12.6 @ 107 now 406 CI Auto 11.035 @ 121


Posted By: Red
Date Posted: Apr/11/2008 at 9:46pm

The reason for the shortage of oil on the diss and cam gears is the factory cam gears has two holes that oil is forced through to lube the gears. Aftermarket gears have six. Therefore there is less presure to squirt oil to the gears. Only if you can get youre hands on a OEM gear or one with only two holes, you need to drill the 1/16 hole in the plug.  You can get the bronze gear from Mallory. Herman also has made a oil pump that only has good pressure but increases volume. Stock oil pump has 6 teeth thats six squirts for every revolution. We sell one that has 9 teeth, increasing volume by 30%.  Yes we do have intakes and heads. The first one is a single highrise that will match up tp original steel heads. We have a new intake and head. The head has intake runners 4 inches on center. The intake looks like a giant spider. Its like a chevy SP design. All intake runners are 4 inch on center, to match the head. This combo is BAD ASS!  Call the shop talk to Herman yourself (304)-253-6493 Best time to catch Big H. in the shop is after 2p.m. to 6p.m.



Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/13/2008 at 4:41pm
If the number of passages in the timing gear is an issue then a little well placed epoxy (on a CLEAN NEW gear) will do the trick. I'm not so sure that's an issue. Volume of oil in that area should be more critical than pressure, as the oil doesn't squirt directly on the dizzy gear. What HAS been a problem is casting flash in the passages on aftermarket gears. Make sure they're free of blockage! 

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Frank Swygert


Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Apr/13/2008 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

as the oil doesn't squirt directly on the dizzy gear.  

Frank
On the V-8, the oil holes are drilled through the teeth around the perimeter where they mesh.


Posted By: Red
Date Posted: Apr/13/2008 at 5:05pm
The well placed epoxy on a new clean gear will fall off soonafter because of the various harmonics  that the engine goes through, eventually ending up in your oil pick up, main bearings,ect....A simple and effective way to stop shredding gears, is just to drill th 1/16 hole in the plug. A tried and true experience through hundreds of rambler engines we have rebuilt from mild street to all out 4 and 5 second cars.


Posted By: GremlinXman
Date Posted: Apr/13/2008 at 9:44pm

Red,

 I have never used any of the modifications you speak of and I use aftermarket cam and distributor gears, I wonder how any of my engines are still together? If the runout on the pump shaft hole is worn out and .0035" how will more oil help? If there is a problem with getting oil to the gears, I guess your band aid idea would work,... but I'd rather fix the problemGeek
 Also the oil pump with more teeth,,, How are you getting more volume with more teeth? are the gears larger diameter and you bore out the pump cavity? if not, and the gears are the same size and just more teeth, the teeth would be smaller(less oil squirted more times) so how would you get more volume? 
 Are you new to HLR ? Most of us have heard of Herman I have had experience with Herman's heads and intake and while they performe well they have lots of issues that need to be dealt with to get them there. I spent 90 Hrs on my heads and intake. 10 valve guides bad out of the box on raw heads, looked at a set last week with the same issue sent the buyer for Indy SR's instead. I hope you are working on QC over thereWink 
When I asked Herman how he was getting 340 CFM  outta his heads @ .700, he told me that was at 1.000 lift not .700 Ermm
 Don't get me wrong, I love my HLR heads as they flow 306 @ .600 and 323@ .700
 But bolt holes taped into the water,  missing valve cover bolt holes, header bolt holes not in the right places...
Hammer%20Head
 Flame me if you guys want, but these are just MY experiences, your's my varyTwoCents
 Davis


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72 Gremlin X was 360 Auto ran 12.6 @ 107 now 406 CI Auto 11.035 @ 121


Posted By: rjs
Date Posted: Aug/01/2008 at 10:51pm
Hey, dung talker! I think I know you.I recognize the bad additude. If you let Herman assemble your stuff for you,you wont have those issues. Bolt holes sometimes go into waterjackets,is this your first engine?If you got a bad part ,send it back! mistakes can happen anywhere.
As for myself,my Herman Lewis built engine is the fastest AMC at my local track.See you there dung talker!Cool


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Ron


Posted By: 74Bubblefender
Date Posted: Aug/02/2008 at 8:37am
Installing any kind of higher flow oil pump gears shreds the stock gears quickly. The OEM AMC pump can make enough volume for any RPM if it is in good shape. The main issue is drainback as Herman well knows.  Drilling the hole in the front plug more than oils up the back of the large timing gear it misses the cam gear completely and it fills up the timing cover with oil. This is the result of that modification and really is not ever needed for a higher RPM AMC engine. The aftermarket camshaft gears have 4 oil lube holes just like the factory camshaft gears but what is happening right now is that their are too many hardnesses and too many mfg of gears and nobodies matches the OEM spec or works well with each others.
 
I dont know why you would say he has a bad attitued when he couldnt get good parts and his flow numbers werent correct. He was told one thing and delivered another and after all that work he has a set of heads that he could have saved money on just buying a set of Edelbrocks....why would someone want a set of Herman Lewis heads when they flow a hugh number at a camshaft lift they can never use?  Your not talking to a bunch of spring chicken AMC'ers almost all of these guys have been messing with their motors for 30+ years. I understand it must be exciting working with Herman and I personally like the man himself he is fun to talk too but I can tell you from experience that spouting experience and having that you "Come here and sit under my wing...just trust me" attitude doesnt go far in the AMC world  LOL
 
Sorry if I came off salty but I take alot of pride in helping dispell the myths on modifications and un-needed parts.


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We are just about to forge new AMC V8 crankshafts.. please check here
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Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Aug/02/2008 at 9:09am
As difficult as it is to get many AMC'ers to open the wallet and buy a part it should at least work  when you get it.


Posted By: Alliups
Date Posted: Aug/02/2008 at 11:28am
I've watched Dr. Phil a few times, hey- some couples and couplings are just incompatible.....LOL
 Steve


Posted By: rjs
Date Posted: Aug/02/2008 at 1:11pm
Edelbrock heads ? are you not aware that edelbrock heads have smaller valves than stock? Herman has moved the intake valve over to allow for 2.125 intake valves.In drag racing ,bigger is better.Period.Its true there is some fitting to get them set up ,but it is well worth the effort.Of course,the power level is well beyond what the rest of the drivetrain can stand,so you need real racing parts to go with it.Herman is a racer, not a street car builder.
Like I said before,if you recieved a bad part,send it back.He will make it right.But he`s not God.We have all made mistakes,right?


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Ron


Posted By: Alliups
Date Posted: Aug/02/2008 at 3:44pm
I imagine Bubblefender is talking about on the street. But even for racing- being more efficient is more important than simply increasing valve area. Flow is more related to velocity - those huge valves- particularly at low lifts- are harder obstacles for the air to get around. Better that the port shape, valve edge and stem contours promote flow than sticking a bigger trap door over the seat.Star
 Steve


Posted By: rjs
Date Posted: Aug/02/2008 at 5:19pm
But Hermans heads flow better than Edelbrocks.Add the larger valves AND larger ports, they are a better choice for wide open. The question is,how quick do you want your car to be?11 or 12 seconds with the Edelbrocks,10 or even 9 second quarter mile times are possable with the Herman Lewis heads.You need to increase the size of everything else the air flows through to get the most out of the valve size increase.For example,1050 Dominator ,HLR intake,HLR heads,1 7/8 Hooker super comp headers.Edelbrocks are easier,but they are more of a street thing.Thats cool too.Cool

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Ron


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Aug/02/2008 at 9:38pm
How about dropping the blatant promotion of HL heads, and coming just to slam members.
Please watch the attitude............... that thread was long since dead, months old. No use bringing it back just for those comments.


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Posted By: rjs
Date Posted: Aug/02/2008 at 10:42pm
I dont meam to slam anybody,but I keep hearing crap about HL heads ,which I use.I take the bad mouthing by people seriously, as I am a customer of his ,and I am super happy with my finished product,which kicks Chevy but as promised.I am not promoting HL heads ,as much as i am  HL motors.Its kind of a package deal.He knows how to set up his parts to work together.I am only talking from my own experiance.Yes,There is a learning curve that comes with using his stufff,but it delivers high horse power,and thats a fact.
Sorry if I came off like a jerk,I didnt mean to.Shocked


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Ron


Posted By: 74Bubblefender
Date Posted: Aug/03/2008 at 10:05am
I guess it depends on which HLR heads you have and what your are building. In the case of GremlinX's heads he would have been miles ahead using a set of Edelbrocks with light porting to achieve those mailto:308@.600 - 308@.600 lift #'s. I do understand HLR makes extrememly well flowing heads and he knows how to set them up but many have complained about the quality of the heads if they bought them outright. Just like GremlinX stated he had major issues and the heads were misrepresented. Then someone called him a smart a## because he was having a hard time getting the heads to work at all. Dont get me wrong their is no way I want to start disrespecting Herman Lewis but I just think their are two sides of the story here and you always only hear the edited versions. Their might be a reason you keep hearing crap about Hermans heads though!

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http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19564


Posted By: rjs
Date Posted: Aug/04/2008 at 11:40am
I have to admit,I was surprised to find out after I bought them,that I couldnt just bolt them on and go.You should be an engine builder or have one fit the heads.There are clearancing issues with the pushrods. I screwed up my own heads trying to clearance the pushrods.Fact is I am a carpenter and was in over my head. I cured my problem by boxing up my engine and having Herman assemble it, which he does for a very reasonable price.I know,more money! The thing is, Herman was able to save me about 500.00 one the price of the custom JE pistons.Here in CA, I was told 1250.00. It was more like 750.00 through HLR. This offset the cost of shipping in one direction. For me ,it was just one more hurdle to jump. No big deal, but I do know what these people are complaining about. There is also the need to triple up the intake gaskets because his heads are taller,and a spacer is used at each end of the valley.Use Chevy intake sealant from the dealer on the gaskets,and "the right stuff "sealant for the valley ends. HLR has new heads I hear, mabye these are not issues anymore.There were some hoops to jump through for sure, but if your focus is racing,HLR is the way to go.I dont think he misrepresents his stuff,but thinks we all can do what he does.To him it is second nature.The bottom line-In the end I got what I wanted. 

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Ron


Posted By: 74Bubblefender
Date Posted: Aug/04/2008 at 12:00pm
His canted valve heads are the cats MEOW!!

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We are just about to forge new AMC V8 crankshafts.. please check here
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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Aug/04/2008 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by 74Bubblefender 74Bubblefender wrote:

His canted valve heads are the cats MEOW!!
 
You mean like this??
 


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Posted By: 74Bubblefender
Date Posted: Aug/04/2008 at 2:14pm
LOL No,  Bill like this!  :D :)
 
 


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We are just about to forge new AMC V8 crankshafts.. please check here
http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19564


Posted By: SEASON2123
Date Posted: Jan/01/2010 at 3:30pm
Unhappy
ITS MY FIRST TIME USING THIS SITE/
I HOPE TO GET SOME INFO

I HAVE AN AMC JAVELIN 1972

I RECENTLY RAN INTO SOME ISSUES WITH IT. IT RAN GREAT FOR A WHILE. I WAS DRIVING IT NOT KNOWIN IT WAS HEATING UP AND THE WATER WASNT FLOWING RIGHT. IT ENDED UP MESSING UP BAD. MY CAM BROKE,A PISTON ROD BROKE AND MY BLOCK DID TOO. 

ANYWAYS I PUT IN A 360 BLOCK AND I USED MY OLD HEADS,AND EVERYTHING ELSE.


I USED MY OLD DISTRIBUTER BUT I PAYED NO MIND TO THE GEARS ON THE NEW BLOCK. I LEFT THE GEARS ON THE NEW BLOCK ON,AND I PUT MY DISTRIBUTER FROM MYPREVIOUS BLOCK.THEN IT BROKE MY GEARS ON THE DISTRIBUTER. THEN I PUT THE CAM GEARS FROM THE OLD BLOCK AND I BOUGHT A DISTRIBUTER AND IT BROKE THEM AGAIN. SO I DID CHECK THE OIL PUMP BEFORE I PUT IT IN AND WELL IT WAS WORKING PROPERLY, THE OIL IS CLEAN, EVERYTHING IS OKAY. BUT I COUNTED THE GEARS/TEETH ON THE DISTRIBUTER AND ONE HAD 13 AND THE OTHER HAD 12. SO I WAS THINKING IT WAS THAT I MUST GET MATCHING CAM GEARS WITH THE DISTRIBUTER/ I WAS THINKING OF BUYING SOME ONLINE LIKE ON EBAY SINCE THESE PARTS ARE HARD TO FIND. BUT NOW THAT IM READING THE NUMEROUS PEOPLE WITH THE SAME PROBLEMS 


IM WONDERING IF THAT REALLY IS THE PROBLEM? 
I HAVE BEEN READING WHAT PEOPLE SUGGEST AND I AM READING PEOPLE SAYING TO  MODIFY STUFF ON IT. AND OTHERS SAYING TO CLEAN OUT THE OIL AND TAKING OFF MY OIL PAN. AND OTHERS SAYING TO JUST GET MATCHING GEARS. 

WELL I GUESS U CAN SAY IM A LIL FRIGHTENED THAT I MIGHT BUY MATCING GEARS AND IT WILL BREAK THE GEARS AGAIN. 

SO  WHAT SHOULD I DO. SHOULD I BUY MATCING GEARS AND MAKE THAT WHOLE WITH THE 1/16 DRILL BIT OR JUST TRY IT  TO SEE HOW IT WORKS. OR HOW CAN I CHECK TO SEE IF EVERYTHING ELSE IS WORKING PROPER?


Posted By: hoosieramc
Date Posted: Jan/01/2010 at 3:59pm
  Welcome aboard! Start by turning OFF the caps lock. It's akin to SCREAMING. You should always run matched gears. If you have been through two distributor gears you probably have a fair amount of metal pumping through you engine. Not a good thing. You may want to do do a complete tear down at this point. You might get lucky and just slap a matched set of gears back in. You can buy matched gears here.
http://www.bulltear.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=33 - http://www.bulltear.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=33
 
 


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Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Jan/01/2010 at 4:28pm
Gears fall apart when mixed and matched. I'd do another count. They don't come in different tooth counts unless one is completely missing.
With all the shrapnel now in the engine, I'd seriously be pulling it apart since it's now in the pan, pickup and oil pump.


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jan/01/2010 at 5:29pm
Agree with all of the above- get your gears from bulltear. If I were buying new, I'd go nowhere else for them. Certainly not eBay in general.
And no, AMC pre-1981 or so used all the same gears on the 2nd gen V8.
So any AMC V8 dist gear in the 70's will be the SAME.  And don't run new on old, IMO.


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Posted By: RB401
Date Posted: Jan/01/2010 at 6:27pm
I would suggest that you look at the oiling system and the fit-up of parts on your motor very carefully, especially, the cam sprocket.  I would not assume the problem was mismatched factory gears.  I have run mismatched factory gears on two AMC V8s for tens of thousands of miles without any problems.  (Note: I am not reccomending this, just saying that I have done it without problems.) I am skeptical that mismatched factory gears alone would cause gears to "break" as you have described.  My feeling is that most of the distributor gear problems that have been reported are actually the result of the gears not getting enough oil.  There have been many reports of incorreclty made aftermarket cam sprockets that restrict oil flow.  Also, when you mix and match parts from different motors you can get fit-up problems.  In this instance, I would make sure the distributor is not to far down in the hole, or to high up.  There is a tolerence range specified in the TSM to ensure that the gears mesh properly. 

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'73 Javelin AMX, 401, T5

T5 Swap Page: http://mysite.verizon.net/amxjavelin/t5swap/t5swap.html


Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Jan/01/2010 at 6:31pm

To break gears sounds like one or both dowel pins were missing when the cover was installed.


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jan/01/2010 at 7:59pm
Aftermarket covers with poorly lined up distributor holes, double gaskets, no gaskets, mis-matched gears, missing dowels allowing the front cover to shift and mis-align the gears, replacement cam timing gear with flashing blocking oil flow, incorrectly made cam timing gear, cheap/poorly made gears, any number of things have been found to cause distributor gear issues.



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Posted By: rjs
Date Posted: Jan/01/2010 at 10:31pm
Since the distributer is the same one from the other engine and you are still breaking gears, you may want to make sure your distributor shaft is not bent, or has excessive movement up and down in the distributor body. just something to check. BREAKING gears is pretty extreme, there is something misalined in my opinion. are you using a gasket on the dist? not two by mistake? As previously mentioned, make sure you have the dowel pins in the timing cover.

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Ron


Posted By: SEASON2123
Date Posted: Jan/02/2010 at 5:23pm
what are some good gears that i can get for the right price and where can i find some.


Posted By: SEASON2123
Date Posted: Jan/02/2010 at 5:27pm
so i also need to check that. im going to see and open it tomorow. because the first time it broke the distributer it was moving up and down. the second time i was useing it for about a week before it broke. but i am going to see if i can find some cam gears with the distributer at my local dismantler.


Posted By: SEASON2123
Date Posted: Jan/02/2010 at 5:30pm
okay well im going to try to get some bulltear gears matched and im going to clean my oill pan off. i will get back to u guys to tell u how it goes


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Jan/02/2010 at 9:49pm

As stated in another post, the issue is not likely in the gears.  I have built dozens of engines and not one has ever had failed gears including many with mismatched gears on a new dizzy mated to the old cam gear in the engine.  The issue is much more likely as stated due to a lack of lubrication from the timing set cam sprocket not feeding oil to the gears or a misalinged dizzy hole in a worn or aftermarket replacement front timing cover that causing too little or too much gear lash.   

Remember, many many AMC engines easily went well over 100k miles without ever having an issue with the dizzy gears.  It wasn't until the newer timing sets and replacement covers came out that the problems started to occur.  Back in the 70s, nobody ever heard about AMC cam and dizzy gears giving it up which should tell all of us that there was not a problem with the old gear sets.

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Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Jan/02/2010 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by SEASON2123 SEASON2123 wrote:

what are some good gears that i can get for the right price and where can i find some.
You can also buy remanned cam and dizzy gear sets from part suppliers for about $30.00.  I've bought two or three sets and they look and work great.

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Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: SEASON2123
Date Posted: Jan/16/2010 at 1:17pm
since some people are doing some modifications to there block. i wanted some one to tell me where to do some wholes, i understood to use a 1/16 drill bit but i want to do this to my block because i reallly dont want my gears to get chewed up again. i want to do it in a couple of hours so if somene will tell me exactly what to do it will be great. i already got my new gears but i also want to do that modification becuase if people got results from them i want to try it too. thanks.


Posted By: rjs
Date Posted: Jan/16/2010 at 4:23pm
I don't have this done on my motor, but my engine builder mentioned this mod. I think you want to put the hole in the pipe plugs that seal off the oil gallery on the front of the block. I'm not sure if one or both should be drilled. I think only one. Hope this helps

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Ron


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Jan/16/2010 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by SEASON2123 SEASON2123 wrote:

since some people are doing some modifications to there block. i wanted some one to tell me where to do some wholes, i understood to use a 1/16 drill bit but i want to do this to my block because i reallly dont want my gears to get chewed up again. i want to do it in a couple of hours so if somene will tell me exactly what to do it will be great. i already got my new gears but i also want to do that modification because if people got results from them i want to try it too. thanks.
 
Are you talking about having an .040 hole in the oil passage plug behind the timing chain? 


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Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: JavelinGeo
Date Posted: May/23/2017 at 5:27pm
Hello Red, just wiped a cam lobe on my AMC 360...melling 20402 cam Comp lifter I over wrenched it and bam! ticking noise that wont go away.. pulled it zall apart block and heads still in car...any advice?!?



Posted By: bobsterfl
Date Posted: Sep/19/2017 at 5:20pm
When I built my 390, I wiped the dizzy gears in just a few miles.  Pulled everything apart and discovered what a dumb rump I was.  I had shimmed the distributor gear to reduce end play, but what I didn't realize was that the shims I used had too large of an outside diameter, and interfered with the gear mesh.  Second time around I used the correct shims that have an OD smaller than the root diameter of the gear. Almost 4,000 miles later with no problems.  I also always used matched gear sets and will use OEM gears that have been run for thousands of miles with no problems.

Bobster


Posted By: Red20
Date Posted: Sep/19/2017 at 6:26pm
I've used the Bulltear matched gears with no issues. I've also installed new MSD cam and dizzy gears together with no issues several times. And I've reused matched (and unmatched...) OEM gears with success. It's all in the oiling system as well as timing cover and endplay tolerances.

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1969 Javelin SST "Screamin' Banana" - Totaled Feb 2018
1973 Hornet Sportabout X "yellajack" - 360/727/TracLoc DAILY DRIVER


Posted By: bobsterfl
Date Posted: Apr/14/2018 at 4:22pm
I have been through this myself.  I had shimmed the distributor gear to minimize end play, and what I did not check was to  make sure that the outside diameter of the shim washer is smaller than the root diameter of the gear. So the shim washer interfered with the correct mesh of the gears and,well...you know the rest.  Hope this information is helpful, and it is easy to check just by yanking the dizzy.



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