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spindles - will these work, and other questions |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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As you surmised, ALL spindles that use the small bearings, disk or drum, will fit the rotor or hub from any other. Only difference is base thickness. I checked this by physically mounting a 1982 or so rotor on a 63 Classic drum brake spindle. Perfect fit. Bill, unless you just simply have to have the exact part number for a perfect resto, I'd just put the spindle you have/want to use on with the caliper bracket, then slip the rotor and caliper on and see if you need to remove or add to the height of the spindle.
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Frank Swygert
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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LOL if it was my 70 or even my SX4 I might insist on the correct spindle part number and skip any spacing or milling.
But this 73 has already been modified a bit, ok, so more than a bit, so i'm only insisting that it be SAFE and the brakes work excellent. It goes fast so I need it to stop fast too without parts falling off. |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Well, spacers between the spindle and steering knuckle don't hurt. I have a couple washers and a 1/2" nut between mine since I built the car in 2003. I discussed that with one of the USAF mechanical engineers. He said you're just extending the mounting surface since the spindle only contacts on the four round pads. As long as the bolts are tight won't make much difference, and there is little, if any, added strain on the bolts.
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Frank Swygert
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Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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Hi Bill,
Sorry, haven't had a chance to check thickness of the spindle flange on my '74 Javelin w/ stock KH. I emailed Wilwood to ask the thickness of their caliper bracket that works with the KH spindles and they said it's 1/2" thick plate and machined where the caliper mounts to 1/4" thick (so still 1/2" between spindle and knuckle). Assume if the combined thickness of (bracket + spindle flange) = 1.25", the KH spindle flange must be in the range of 3/4" thick or 1/8" or so less than your spindle. Not particularly exact measurements, but a bit of adjustment may be needed to fit the KH calipers using your spindles. Assume since there's a LH and RH bracket for between spindle to knuckle, there may be a difference in offset so maybe can swap left and right to fit. As farna suggests, may be best to wait until you have parts in hand and can trial fit and adjust to suit. If I get a chance to check mine more closely, will post details, but expect you may receive your parts before then. Hope this helps,RD
Edited by Red Devil - Mar/06/2018 at 8:43pm |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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The parts may start arriving Wednesday - not sure when Bob mailed out the brackets, though. But the rest I expect this week.
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Lyle
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/17/2014 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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Bravo Bill,
If it goes it has to stop, and if it goes faster it has to stop and handle faster. The right parts, fasteners, torques - a lot of research but everyone else on the road is safer which is more important then the driver or builder that made changes. Those dropping 502 crate motors in a GM and doing nothing else are just - nuts, and bring undo risk to everyone else on the road.
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Someone will spend five grand on an engine build because they want a bit more power - then when there's a brake problem balk at $50 for new parts.
If you want a car to go xx mph in a quarter mile - the horsepower needed to get there can be calculated- and people will spend a lot of time figuring that out. But what about making it stop in a FRACTION of that time and distance - because lives depend on it? Yeah, I have a budget, too - funds aren't unlimited, but death is rather permanent.
I saw a lot of #%%&*% when I was working in a shop that did exhaust, alignments and brakes - and a lot got sent out that drove me nuts. I literally walked off the job when I was ordered to take shortcuts on a car with BAD brakes - a stationwagon with a family on vacation - got my pickup, backed up to the door, loaded my tools and drove away - and never went back. |
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White70JavelinSST
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Aug/08/2012 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 4866 |
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billd,
I have a huge amount of respect for your knowledge and opinions, that's why I'm injecting a bit of humor here, I have never had parts fly off my SST until well after it penetrates the sound barrier...... Seriously though, you are spot on correct with your attitude about brakes and your comparisons. and, I respect you even more for thumbing your nose at a shop owner or foreman who tells you to run something out the door that you didn't agree with. It's all about being able to sleep at night with a clear conscience...and that always means we've done the right thing |
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70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I've only ever had one part come off and it was at the VERY WORST POSSIBLE TIME.....
Way back when I had my 68 Javelin I had sidepipes on it........ and I followed the instructions and didn't do a great job of it - or so I thought until I found in later days the instructions told you to use sheet metal screws in the rocker panels and, well..... Anyway, I had just met the girl who would later be my first wife a few weeks prior - we were out in my car and well, sort of in the rural areas, few houses, few roads - and those were gravel..... Hit a bump and dropped the right pipe. RATS - we were just getting out where it was private. We had to laugh - I found some wire and wrapped it around the pipe but didn't really have any tools so she drove the car back while I held the end of the wire to keep the pipe off the road on the way back to town. Of all the timing!
And that explains why I have heavy steel brackets each of which is bolted with two carriage bolts through the structure of my 70 Javelin to hold the sidepipes up - it ain't ever gonna happen again! |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Here is something that may be helpful for a future conversion if anyone is interested -
In short, I gave my front drum brakes to my neighbor and purchased heavy-duty Kelsey Hayes disk brakes from a member - that purchase included the caliper and support brackets, rotors, bearing sets and seals. From another member I purchased the proper brackets - that go behind the spindle and which the caliper brackets bolt to. there is a left and right bracket, 3210412 and 3210413 (photo of the 412 below, 413 would be a mirror image) I had spindles from a 1980 Concord with Bendix disk brakes - I had been going to use those but they were rough enough and since the K-H were for sale here - and were a correct option on a 73 Javelin, why not (I'll sell the bendix setup later - without spindles of course) The Concord spindles APPEARED TO BE part number 3233629 (the 6 was a question mark but is likely the one) I used a micrometer and measured the mounting "pads" of the Concord spindles to be .893" When I put things together with the spindles as they were, the rotor outer face was forced into the outboard pad in the caliper - causing the caliper to not bolt to the bracket. I machined down the mounting pads to .823" thickness and tried again - and this time the caliper mounted and the pad had clearance between it and the outer face of the rotor but it still didn't seem to be centered as nicely as I wanted - the inner pad was further away than the outboard pad was from the rotor face. I mounted the spindle and machined off more - taking it down to .793" - meaning I had taken off an even 0.100" from the mounting pads. I bolted the spindle in place, put the rotor back on, mounted the caliper and checked pad clearances again. This time with the piston fully retracted, pads in place, the inboard and outboard pads each had roughly the same distance from the rotor face. i machined the same .100" off the other spindle so both spindles will have mounting pad thicknesses of .793" instead of their original .893" In the end, other than the part number for the spindles being incorrect if someone cared to remove them to look at the back side, everything is correct for 1973 Javelin with Kelsey Hayes disk brakes. I still won't had the splash shields but I can add those later with little work if I actually FIND a pair. The spindles are the correct size, use the correct bearings, and hold the rotor pretty well centered in the caliper. So someone can use this thread to see what spindles are what, which brackets are needed and so on. Photos show the brackets that go between the spindle and steering knuckle and hold the calipers, and the point where I machined the mounting pads off the spindles to move them inward to center the rotor better inside the caliper when things were put together. For these Kelsey Hayes brakes, you need this bracket and the 413 for the other side... This is where I machined off the mounting pads for the spindles - removing .100" for a final mounting pad thickness of .793"
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