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Stupid and heavily debated question.. |
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PROSTOCKTOM 
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Joined: Jun/20/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 2450 |
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 Posted: Apr/18/2019 at 1:38pm |
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Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent zinc and .12 percent phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil, which contains .14 percent zinc and .13 percent phosphorus. However it looks like the NSL version is no longer produced. Be interesting to see what the levels of zinc and phosphorus were in 1971.
Tom
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Trader
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Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6882 |
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Posted: Apr/18/2019 at 3:18pm |
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Source is an article on oil and quote from API with regards to ZDDP:
"Standards for engine oil are set by the American Petroleum Institute (API) and the International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC). Prior to 1988 API SF specified a minimum of 1500 PPM. In 1993 API SG reduced the minimum to 1200 PPM, and it was reduced again to 1000 PPM with the SL started in 2004." SM was 600 to 800 PPM as far as I have read. This is from a Hot Rod magazine post but it does not state the source: SM MAX 800
SL/SJ 1000-1400 SH 1000-1400 SG 1000-1400 SF 1000-1400 SE 1000-1200 - 1979 SD 1000-1200 -1971 SC 1000-1200 SB 1000 SA 0 Edited by Trader - Apr/18/2019 at 4:16pm |
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74Bubblefender
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Posted: Apr/18/2019 at 4:30pm |
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Nasa tested motor oil and found Mobil 1 to exceed all other oils both special blends and non special oils. You want to run an oil that will have a long shelf life and be good for any weather Mobil 1 0w50 is superior. In 2002 Mobile helped us develop AMC-HD. It was a small success and had esther for swelling the seals, a high base number, 1900ppm of ZDDP and was 8 years ahead of its time. We quit selling it in 2012ish. You can still find photos of it online. But the Nasa tests were conclusive on Mobil 1. They will not come out an endorse ANY brand and that is the official word. The band of lubrication engineering is narrow. There is no mystery just a different blend.
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We are just about to forge new AMC V8 crankshafts.. please check here
http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19564 |
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6768rogues
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Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6241 |
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Posted: Apr/18/2019 at 6:19pm |
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I use blue jugs of Walmart conventional 10W-40 in all my old cars. It is rated as SN plus, which is the newest standard. It is compatible with ethanol fuel and far exceeds the oil made for my old cars way back when they were built. I have one with a modified engine with stronger valve springs, so I dump in ZDDP additive in that one just in case. SD oil was made for engines up through 1971. SN is many generations improved and is backward compatible. I see no reason to spend lots of money on fancy oil that is purple or some other weird color. If you want to spend more money, change the oil more frequently.
Edited by 6768rogues - Apr/18/2019 at 6:21pm |
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Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention.
Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL. |
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Trader
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Posted: Apr/18/2019 at 8:11pm |
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So doing a little light reading,
SM and SN is not backwards compatible with API obsolete oil categories. The HTHS or shear rating of the oil is not suitable for traditional camshafts and lifters. SN Plus, from what I am reading, is backwards comparable with ALL API rated oils, including obsolete. It has the HTHS ratings for every oil category SA through SM, with negligible ZDDP content! I'm seeing additives of nano-moly, but this is propitiatory to each manufacturer, so not a lot of detail. I would not use a SM or SN in one of my engines but the SN Plus does look like a positive move in the industry. My Opinion. Do your own research choose wisely. |
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FSJunkie
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Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Posted: Apr/18/2019 at 11:06pm |
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I like to think of every random Jeep 4.0L running around out there still with 200,000 or 300,000 miles on it now that has never had anything but whatever cheap conventional 10W30 was on sale at the time and yet we don't hear of camshaft failures.
That puts my mind mostly at ease. I still Run Rotella T or Brad Penn. That puts my mind fully at ease. |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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Trader
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Posted: Apr/19/2019 at 6:06am |
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Very true FS, but the 4.0l has quite weak stock valve spring pressure. 75 lbs/in closed and 210 lbs/in open and 0.423" valve lift.
Far cry from a performance engine build, moderate performance is 100+ lbs/in closed and 300+ lbs/in open. It only goes up from there for valve lifts greater then 0.500". The engine build has to be taken into consideration with the oil to be used. A 4.0l was designed for SL oil with 1000 PPM ZDDP minimum. Given that SL is obsolete and the SM and SN do not have 1000 PPM ZDDP, I would consider changing to the SN Plus that covers the HTHS ratings of SL oil. My opinion. SL oil is not obsolete yet, but will be when SP is introduced, my mistake.
Edited by Trader - Apr/19/2019 at 9:55am |
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Midnight Rambler
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Posted: Apr/19/2019 at 6:17am |
The 4.0...my '97 Wrangler just had the frame fail at 250K. I replaced it with an '04 solely because it was the last year, this one has 150K. Neither burn oil. I can't believe the 4.0/5sp isn't the swap of choice in the small bodies, especially the Americans. If I knew then... I buy the jugs of Rotella. The purple is 3x the cost, it's kind of like using high octane gas in a low compression engine - doesn't hurt but no benefit.
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 '66 American 440 Convertible 290/M-40/AMC 20 3.15/PS/PB '04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp |
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1982AMCConcord
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Posted: Apr/19/2019 at 8:57am |
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An older article directed toward heavy duty working vehicles but it highlights the differences between CJ-4 and CI-4/CI-4 PLUS oil. I think the main take away is that the newer oils are designed to work better with a modern vehicle's more advanced emissions equipment. This would still be a concern for people with cars that still have emissions equipment but not so much for those of us without.
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Trader
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Posted: Apr/19/2019 at 9:31am |
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API Sx is for gasoline engines and Cx is the rating for diesel engines.
Though many use diesel motor oils in gasoline engines, the specifications are different and came out at different times. The SM came out in 2005? SN 2010. The CI 2002 and CJ 2007 and newest is CK 2017. If using a diesel motor oil then you would have to look up the specifics of that oil for cross referencing to the gasoline motor oil equivalency. Diesels have more ring blow by due to higher cylinder pressures and fuel type, therefore do have more detergents in them then gasoline oils. Diesels also count on the lubricity of the fuel to some extent for cylinder lubrication. They are not the same formula oils so again, your engine, your choice. But look up the specifications. Again, my opinion. |
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FSJunkie wrote: