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TH400 and Torqueflite bolt patterns

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PHAT69AMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2019 at 5:51pm
Sounds like maybe so, found this on the Novak web site:

T176 & T150 AMC Bellhousing
This is a new AMC I6 & V8 bellhousing with the correct pattern for the
T176/T150 as well as standard Ford “Butterfly” pattern transmissions.

"The OEM 1976-79 T150/T18 as well as the 1980-86 T176/T177 bellhousing
 will work as they came from the factory with the Ford transmissions listed above."

https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/adapters/engine-to-transmission/amc/ford-amc/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2019 at 11:00pm
for AMC transmissions, six or eight, there was a switchover in 1972. before and after are completely NOT INTERCHANGABLE.

before 72, the V8 and six engine back patterns are old Nash patterns. these transmissions, manual and auto, had separate bell adapters, engine-to-transmission. the manual choices are very limited, for the six, only one trans with a couple of annoying minor variations in the location of two of the bolts. i think there's a T10 bell for pre-72, but i'm not a v8 person... i have no idea if there is any interchangeability at the transmission-end of the automatic bells. (the one for the little air-cooled BW auto for the six has a very simple circular pattern i once considered for a homebrew adapter).

1972 and up, AMC changed all of the engine back patterns to be the same, and switched to Chrysler automatics. those all have the "bell housing" integral to the case -- it is not separate. i've never built an auto transmission so i can't speak from experience, but apparently the guts are interchangable with Chrysler transmissions, to some degree (wear parts at least i assume, maybe no external levers etc).

* all 1971 and older engines have the starter on the (U.S.) passenger side.
* all 1972 and newer engines have the starter on the (U.S.) drivers side.


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2019 at 11:49pm
I mounted a 1973 AMC TF 727 to a 1969 AMC 343 Block with no problems.
I was under the impression the AMC V8 Block to Trans Pattern did not change 1967 & Up...
For me, I know next to nothing about the 6 Cylinder AMC's, but do recall being posted
as you mention that the 6-Cylinder pattern changed to be the same as the V8's. 


Edited by PHAT69AMX - Feb/05/2019 at 11:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2019 at 1:05am
Phat, you are correct, the V8 bell housing to block pattern is the same for 290, 343, 390, 304, 360, 401 from the start in 67 or so when the motor first came out, the only change in 72 was to the crank when they moved to the TF 727.
 
Both the TF727/904/998 and TH400 transmissions have an integral bell housing that cannot be removed from the transmission and the transmission used by AMC hand an AMC specific case.
 
The only other option that I'm aware of was maybe late 60's Jeeps that used the TH400, they had an adaptor plate between the block and transmission that allowed the to use the BOP (Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac) version of the TH400.  Something like this:
 
 
If you can get hold of one of these adapters, then the dyno shop might have something that bolts up.
 
Otherwise you are going to need a manual bell housing or one of the earlier Borg Warner auto transmission ones mentioned above, that are removable from the transmission.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67 Marlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2019 at 7:23am
The Forum strikes again Cool  Looks like I'll be searching for a T176 bellhousing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2019 at 9:28am
I am totally and completely confused.  I finally figured out that you are trying to bolt up your engine to a dyno.  First you mention the bellhousing pattern of the dyno being incompatible so I assumed that you were looking for an adapter to get a GM pattern on the back of the AMC block.  Then we are looking for complete bellhousings apparently to use as an adapter that the dyno can bolt to.  If that is the case, why can't you just use an AMC T-10 bell housing?  GM used T-10's at one time. 
Roger Gazur
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DragRacingSpirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2019 at 12:34pm
Another idea is an AMC ultrabell.

2 flavors of ultrabell, 400 turbo or powerglide. I use both depending on the transmission choice at the time.

A mondello SFI flexplate works great with either one. Std GM 3 bolt converter pattern.

Any 400 turbo torque converter for GM applications bolts right up nothing special as long as you have the 72 and up crank flange.


Edited by DragRacingSpirit - Feb/06/2019 at 12:50pm
Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2019 at 1:49pm
Reckon an AMC Bellhousing of some kind is needed on the Dyno since the Starter bolts to the Bellhousing?
? Curiosity question: On a Dyno, is a Flywheel Required, or can a Flexplate also be used?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DragRacingSpirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2019 at 2:04pm
I have never had and engine on a dyno.

I assume there is a hub that bolts up to the torque converter pattern of the flexplate/flywheel ?

There must be a shaft that splines into this hub from the dyno ? If the shaft can turn the motor over to start I would assume you don't need a bellhousing bolted to the engine ?

Again im not sure how it works. If the dyno can't crank the input shaft over to start the engine a bellhousing and starter may be required ?

rob
Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2019 at 3:05pm
Okay, a bit of clarity.  I went on the Superflow website and their dyno mounts on a bell housing they supply that is drilled for a variety of engines, AMC not being one of them.


The dyno that Revsearch uses is a Stuska that utilizes a separate stand with a starting motor that doesn't require a bell housing for mounting.


But back to the OP's dilemma, if it were me I'd talk to the dyno shop and have the Superflow adapter drilled with the AMC bolt pattern and be done with it.  I'm sure there's a competent machine shop in Jamestown who could do that.  If not, there would have to be one in Fargo.
Roger Gazur
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1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

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