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195.6 timing set...

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tomj View Drop Down
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    Posted: Apr/21/2021 at 1:18pm
I'm looking for timing chain set (chain, cam sprocket, crank sprocket) reliable part numbers. "Catalog collapse" strikes again. Aftermarket seems to have collapsed aluminum and cast iron OHV and flathead, and possibly a couple variations, all into one mess.

The only part number I am confident of is the chain, Melling 339. 

Kanter has the parts at a reasonable $115 (that's what reasonable is now). I'd like to find the part numbers in any case, Melling or other manufacturer. Anyone else have old boxes with numbers? eBay, nothing.

The iron OHV chains and teeth are .765" wide, but many sources call it "3/4".

These are the measured specs on the parts:

Chain: 30 links/60 teeth, 1" wide outside
Crank: 23 teeth, 1.375" ID, keyed
Cam: 46 teeth, keyed

Any hard information appreciated.



Edited by tomj - Apr/21/2021 at 2:18pm
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinrev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2021 at 4:23pm
I'd say the Kanter price is reasonable!
I believe the crank sprocket is S230 in Cloyes -no longer available
and the cam gear is S229.

Jegs and Summit list a Melling Chain, #365-but I don't believe they are correct!








Edited by ramblinrev - Apr/24/2021 at 3:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Japa109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2021 at 6:33pm
Last spring I could find timing sets for $105.  The vendors now have them at $190!  Tom, I will share my source with you via PM.  I just bought two more sets at $75 and I have him searching his buildings for more.

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1963 American 2 dr wagon OHV-2V OD
1962 American 400 4 door OHV-2V Auto AC PS PDB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2021 at 7:55pm
Shocked  I bought my '63 American HT back in 1995. Grabbed an engine at Pick Your Part and the ONE THING I did was put a new timing set in it. I think I got it at Kregan or Trak Auto - all those stores that are no longer around (here anyway).  As best I recall it even came with gears and was..., $25 and IN STOCK.

If/when I ever get the engine cracked open for my Poorman's Rebuild I'm hoping to find that 2,000 miles I put on the chain set since 1995 amounted to little wear. Getting the part numbers is good. A lot of times people will get boxloads of stuff and can't be bothered looking up the application. So, sometimes good deal are found because they just list by number.  

Got this from the Melling site.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2021 at 1:12am
Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

I'd say the Kanter price is reasonable!
I believe the crank sprocket is S230 in Cloyes -no longer available
and the cam gear is S229.
The chain is common to many Fords and GMs around 1977-87. Try 365 for that.

Summit has one left for $15.70

Thanks for the numbers! WIll look up in the AM when I'm at my desktop. 
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2021 at 1:16am
Originally posted by wittsend wittsend wrote:

Shocked  I bought my '63 American HT back in 1995. Grabbed an engine at Pick Your Part and the ONE THING I did was put a new timing set in it... $25 and IN STOCK.

So, sometimes good deal are found because they just list by number.  


And sometimes the only way to find the part is by number. Catalog collapse is real.

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Got this from the Melling site.


The chain is 339. Its 60 teeth, 1". (The teeth are actuallt .765" wide, 3/4 on a tape measure :-)

The melling site stopped working for me, aargh. Browser issue I guess. But there's contradictory info on the sprockets; search by app returns part numbers, but searching part numbers got different apps and importantly,d imensions. None of the sprockets listed on Melling are correct (dimensionally).

Melling has not one 23-tooth crank gear, so that's that.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2021 at 1:20am
Originally posted by Japa109 Japa109 wrote:

Last spring I could find timing sets for $105.  The vendors now have them at $190!  Tom, I will share my source with you via PM.  I just bought two more sets at $75 and I have him searching his buildings for more.


I'll message you elsewhen... I bought a Kanter set, i'm super tight for cash, so I have to restrain the inner paranoid wanting multiples on the shelf seeing how soon I will have a machinists bill.


I hauled home another junk 62 195.6 OHV (sigh) and forthehellofit pulled the timing cover to looksee. The chain is so sloppy I wonder if it could have idled. But it was 23T/46T /765" 60 tooth chain. And oil that flaked off the cover like kale chips (probably as edible as kale chips), so I suspect it was run crazy-hot before it died.
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2021 at 11:30am

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... The chain is so sloppy I wonder if it could have idled. ...

I'm beginning to wonder that it will get to the point that nothing will be available and something like a modern engine chain guide will have to be "McGuyvered" to take up the chain slack.

That does nothing for durability using old components so it may get to the point of machining more common crank/cam gears to fit and then using the fore mentioned chain guide with a 'close but not close enough' new chain from another application.

Belt driven valvetrains have it easier. In my Turbo Pinto world some have adapted a Volvo DOHC head to the Ford 2.3 block. That even gets Mitsubishi parts blended in. But with a belt tensioner they only need the correct tooth count, tooth pattern on the pulleys and be 'close enough' on the belt length.


Edited by wittsend - Apr/22/2021 at 11:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2021 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

The Melling chain # is 365, for the 3/4" chain!
Look at the Jegs and Summit listing....they list 61-62 Rambler 6 with cast iron.

Yeah but it's the wrong part for "most" 195.6's. I think there is a 1961-only timing set with narrow teeth. But 1965 and 1962 are definitely .765" teeth and 1" wide chain -- I measured. Incorrect data is a large part of the problem.

There's a lot of different timing chains and sprockets. It's group 1.130, 1.132, 1.134. 


The AMC numbers don't help locate aftermarket parts sadly, so I'm going by actual measurements.

For this engine the big hint is 23-tooth crank 46 tooth cam sprocket teeth. It was the only Melling part with 23 teeth.


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2021 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by wittsend wittsend wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder that it will get to the point that nothing will be available and something like a modern engine chain guide will have to be "McGuyvered" to take up the chain slack.

That time may be soon. The internet's been great for finding parts, but also good for draining all the sources! But who knows. There seems to be plenty of pistons at the moment, new-manufacture.

Quote

I have std, 030,040,060 available. They are not made in China.They are all weight balanced to within 2.5 grams, and seized to within .0003 of each other piston in the set. Hope this helps, thanks for looking. Dale -premierunitedsales-7 Ebay pistons and rings.

If someone does indeed find a work-alike/modifyable timing parts, that would be a big help. We're scrounging rod and main bearings, still a reasonable selection, but they've disappeared from most catalogs. Cams and tappets are scarce. Headgaskets have one source (Best) plus old stock. 

oil pumps are scarce, but on that front I'm working up some options: I found a simple way to adapt the 65 pump to the early chassis, but requires you switch to full-flow filtration, I won't drive one without it. The E-stick pump has much larger gears in a very similar package, with a full-flow cover it's gonna be a great high-perf pump. There are some repair parts for it because it wasn't exactly popular. 

Price is up on all parts, but what else is new.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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